FC terminator with thunder hammer + storm shield

[MaxPower]

Hello,

I just wanted to ask if it is possible to give the Force Commander with terminator armor another melee weapon. I was thinking about one of the most iconic terminator melee weapons, the thunder hammer with storm shield.

Yes we are talking Cpt. Lysander style.



Right now the FC with terminator armor has weapons to deal with ranged low hp blobs (Flamer), high hp single ranged targets (Assault cannon), low hp melee units (Flamer, lightning claws) and high hp melee units (Lightning claws).

As we can see he is able to get a weapon against every unit, apart from vehicles, and that should be the role of the thunder hammer and storm shield.

Not sure about stats, but I'd say the stats should be something like 95 dps melee_heavy, +500 hp, a stun ability like the big stomp from the warboss and it should cost something like 150 req and 80 energy.

Someone (don't know who though) made a nice looking shield to replace the force commanders normal one, which would fit the force commander terminator really good.

This is the shield I was talking about (which is still lying around in my mods folder somewhere):



Those are just my 2 cents.

PS: Sorry for my rather mediocre English.

[Lulgrim]

Ofc it's possible, but doesn't he already have the 170 dmg 85 dps heavy melee power fist by default...

[Eerie]

That would feel fine, especially since fc is getting a power claw instead of power fist, aye? You can always give him some minor aoe.

[Indrid]

I'd love to see this, but his default termie fist is already 85 DPS (I thought it was lower than his regular fist) so you'd be paying for the +500 HP and the AoE disruption ability. Would it be worth it? Would you use it other than for the cool factor?

Making the DPS more than 95 risks serious OPness since he'd have 3000 HP and a built-in teleport AND could retreat.

Would be better to make it 105 DPS imo, with +500 HP and the AOE ability, but then it would have to be 200/100 or something like Providence was, because of the teleporting and retreating. It would be like a teleporting Hive Tyrant with Crushing Claw!

Really wanna see it, even if it is just for the cool factor. I'm guessing these balance considerations is why Relic never implemented it in the first place. Maybe Caeltos has some ideas? I'd go for the better, more expensive version myself.

[Lulgrim]

I wouldn't mind making it, really. My random suggestion would be an active ability for each TFC weapon, as he is kinda passive right now after upgrading to Terminator Armor.

Putting >100 heavy melee dps on a teleporting suppression/kb immune hero sounds crazy, though. But the default fist damage could go down as well to make a neck - it is a free "secondary" weapon for his storm bolter, after all, it doesn't necessarily need to compete with heavy melee upgrades costing 50 power.

[Indrid]

Yeah true, could lower the default fist damage, and make the AoE disruption ability for the TH/SS do some decent damage so he doesn't get eaten by Genestealers/Seer Council/Nobs etc in T3 so easily.

Active ability for each weapon would be cool too. Obvious choice for the AC would be a Dread-like barrage, or some kind of instant suppression thing.

[MaxPower]

The fist he has right now should indeed get a damage nerf, since it is just a sidearm, as you mentioned.

And I do agree with Indrids stats (105 DPS, + 500 hp, + AOE Ability + also the price sounds good), but the ability is a must because you would pay 400 req + 200 energy just for your commander. So, yeah he should pack quite a punch.

As for the abilitys, yeah barrage or instant suppress for the AC sounds about right. Dunno about the Lightning Claws, maybe something like the the Chaos Lords Claws or something like the nobs ability to do more after eache kill...dunno how its called though ^^

[Lulgrim]

I was thinking about CL ripoff for the claws and a barrage sweep or AoE ability with knockback or suppression for the cannon originally.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

he needs to not retreat with the terminator armour; he's no longer a hero, he's a single model termi squad.

[MaxPower]

If you think about removing his ability to retreat, it would also mean a drastic cost reduction for the terminator armor or he should be able to level with it, but getting a 200 req and 100 energy (which is quite expensive) and not being able to retreat is just ott.

Well thats at least my opinion.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

that's the cost for normal termies. and you buy the FC back for 200/0, not 150/50

[MaxPower]

250 req just saying, and it costs me a great amount of req and energy to get this "feature". Also if the FC with terminator armor shouldn't be able to retreat any more, lets do the same to all the other heavy melee commanders. Or make it so that i get him back for like 50 req if he dies.

Or as I mentioned earlier, let the FC in terminator armor level and i wouldn't mind not being able to retreat anymore.

[Indrid]

Stop being mental Max! The argument for him not being able to retreat is that he has so much health, can teleport, and can't be KB or suppressed (not that I agree with it). You can't say the same thing about "all the other heavy melee commanders".

If he could level, you'd have a 5,000 HP comm at level 10 that had all the benefits as above. Though that wouldn't happen often since it's a T3 wargear, think about what you're saying before you post....

[MaxPower]

Was meant too serious, but getting rid of the retreat mechanic on an armor that cost 200 req and 100 energy is a bit ott. But that is ofc just me, so dont my last post too seriously, just wanted to say that if he wont be able to retreat anymore he should get another advantage to make up for it.

I hope you know what I mean.

[DeathDealer]

Maybe the claws should be replaced by the hammer and it could have a decent chance to inflict AoE but not guaranteed; through either a flat rate of AoE specials (~30%) or a high melee skill adjustment.

Imo the claws are everywhere already and less representative of this commander.

As for retreating, what if he teleported back to base on retreat but it demoralized nearby troops (-15% dmg in radius 40) and he couldn't do it while his teleport was on cooldown (this resets the cooldown). With a 60 second cooldown on his teleport he would have to duke it our for a minute if he 'ported in on a hornet's nest and he'll have to trudge it for a minute once he retreats.

[KanKrusha]

Is adding abilities to him when he is in terminator armour going to be balanced? Doesn't he pay for having access to Assault terminators, and supplementing terminators by being an additional terminator himself, by not having abilities?

[Nuclear Arbitor]

indeed. terminators are high damage dealers and tanks and thus don't have active abilities. in addition the FC can retreat in termie armour, and costs 250/0/0 to "reinforce". the flamer means he is great at solo gen bashing.

[dance commander]

Why would anyone invest in replacing a storm bolter wich has more dps than a combi flamer, and a 85 heavy melee power fist by default, I will never understand, except for the flamer and its ability to instantly wipe a full gen farm.

That teleport suggestion would just promote solo suicide tactics, with the fc following you back to base every time, since he can't even be supressed, it wouldn't work.

[Dark Riku]

except for the flamer and its ability to instantly wipe a full gen farm.

Doesn't do that in elite.

[dance commander]

except for the flamer and its ability to instantly wipe a full gen farm.

Doesn't do that in elite.

The ability still affects all gens and wipes them out in a matter of seconds, the only difference is that instead of being 2-3 it takes now 6-7, wich is a ridiculously short time, the fix was only in name.

The only reason people don't pull that shit off anymore is that it costs 170 power to get termi armor and flamer

[Nuclear Arbitor]

also costing you previous wargear. i think it was mostly naaium who did it anyway but that doesn't make it fun or balanced.

[sk4zi]

i think an aoe disruption ability is worth a lot ... but loosing all range is also a big penalty. (like thunderhammer and stormshield is on normal FC)

so i think it would be a cool upgrade but too expensive since the loss of range