Patch 2.3.1 (Tentative balance changelog preview)

[Ace of Swords]

Haven't tried them yet, but if what was written is true, I'd rather see catas be expensive but resistent, with an appropriate bleeding for their strenght.

[Cyris]

One way or another, moving cats from their weird position of what felt like half damage sharing models to a more consistent bleed setup is a good first step. Tweaking cost/health/utility can and should happen afterwards, but I applaud and support this change!

That said, I too find it hard to fit cats into my builds (though I'm not the most experienced with IG). I prefer to counter heavy melee by adding a HWT, which has great scaling in T2, and seems to help more against dedicated melee commanders who tend to have ways of dealing with cats. And as mentioned, spotters counter ranged blobs/setup better and don't bleed me.

Can't wait to try this build out!

[Cheekie Monkie]

Looks like some people are forgetting Catachan's big damage output, their power melee in T1 and massive utility.
Smoke that has no drawback, being a close combat counter (in melee), explosive shot: close ranged disruption,
ol' uneliable: setup counter/disruption/extra damage output/unit finisher, option for a massive bomb that can easily wipe squads,
come T2 the option for soft AV and ambush possibilities with infiltration.

AND as it stands now they might only be 300/30! ...

Great, except all that is utterly useless since they will get wiped in seconds and when they don't they'll lose so many models that all the wonderful economic changes to IG to make them transition to t3 sooner will be made useless and instead any IG who buys cats will be stuck in T2 forever. Their damage is also largely useless vs ranged units due to their range. So yeah, they're epic anti-melee... Except IG have no problem vs melee anyway thanks to sentinels and their heroes.

Not to turn the thread into a strategy discussion, but what does the LG and the CL have that demolishes melee? All I know is that the Inq has her snare shenanigans.

[Cheah18]

Commissar's lead by example is awesome vs melee

[sebi.costa]

Commissar's lead by example is awesome vs melee

If u have energy for it after using the shield to get into melee.
-50 rec on their price isnt worth to have them lose their demo man and bleed like a normal squad.
At least ull be able to easily spot IG noob players when u see them get catachens!

[Dark Riku]

Must make me a super nub then.

[sebi.costa]

Must make me a super nub then.

Dont worry, if the changes end up being bad, u wont use catachens either. A good player wont invest in a almost ok-ish unit, if that will end up bleeding him to defeat.
If catachens cant perform, after the nerf/changes, to justify their initial cost and reinforcements cost, then no experienced player will buy them, waste of supply, other units are a much better investment!(spotters for disruption, and sentinel/set-up teams for melee counters)

[Torpid]

Must make me a super nub then.

Last time I saw your IG you were super uber nub, but you hide all your replays from me and never upload to GR so do go complaining about the fact that the last time I saw your ig was like 4 months ago

P.S I would talk more about IG strategy in a strategy thread rather than here. At the very least though the LG does great burst ranged damage in T1 and has crazy hp and a special attack in melee which makes t1 melee pretty poor vs him. The LC has the power sword which is basically battle-cry and for that reason is meant to be used defensively while standing next to a GM squad when the melee is charging them. The damage output of numerous GM buffed by LBE, especially in T2 with commissar's is insane.

[Dark Riku]

Blind.

[Phoenix]

Not to mention the damage the LC does himself, with full stuborness buff and one of his heavy melee weapons he almost does 150 dps (I think only a warboss with power claw, UYC and Angry Bitz buff does more damage).
On top of that he has some crazy buffs available for his infantery that turn catas/ogryns/etc. into wrecking machines.

[Torpid]

A flak jacket, stubbornness/AoD switching + power sword wielding LC alongside ogryns can beat anything in melee that can be knocked over, and it does so with ease. Yes, that includes fully upgraded nobs.

[Cyris]

By the way, how is the sniper testing going in beta? I totally forgot about those guys!

[Sub_Zero]

power sword wielding LC alongside ogryns can beat anything in melee

I noticed that every infantry-based unit gets buffed (the yellow circles appear) and ogryns do not (the yellow circles don't appear). Am I right? Is it a bug? Or ogryns get buffed but the circles don't appear?

[Sub_Zero]

Just an idea.

What about making that strike squad's T2 ability affect vehicles as well? That will be a second vehicle snare, that will compensate their inability to deal damage before being tied up and their inability to fire on the move.

[Dark Riku]

They fire on the move.

[Black Relic]

He might mean their their upgrade weapons. Probably mainly looking at the psycannon.

[Cheekie Monkie]

Factoring in additional balancing, perhaps strikes should be able to fire their special weapons on the move?

I really like the versatility of strike squads in T1; making them into a more mobile weapons platform would help better differentiate them from the heavy weapons platform of purgs and offset the loss of a halberd better.

[saltychipmunk]

it is rather perplexing that the weapon upgrades on the strikes (which are elite among space mehrehns) would use weapons that are functionally inferior to the weapons used by the average tactical marine squad.


especially since they are melee oriented.

[Cyris]

Factoring in additional balancing, perhaps strikes should be able to fire their special weapons on the move?

I really like the versatility of strike squads in T1; making them into a more mobile weapons platform would help better differentiate them from the heavy weapons platform of purgs and offset the loss of a halberd better.

I actually kindda like this idea. With Purgs weapons being changed a bunch in this next patch, maybe the link between the strike and purg versions of Incinerator and Psycannons can be cut even more. It's always been a bit awkward for strikes to need to stand still to fire both weapons, since they feel like they want to be a rather mobile squad. Granted, it's a valid balance choice between "fire your weapon" and "stay mobile", but the potency of a single instance of these weapons has never been super high, and Purgs should be your goto for heavy ranged firepower.

To sum up: I think it would be cool to allow strikes to fire both their special weapons on the move, and to make reasonable damage/range reductions to them to compensate. I think this will help differentiate them more from Purgs and fit with their melee nature better.

Some numbers:
Tac flamer: 65/20
Incinerator: 80/20 - Can't fire on the move, +3 range, deals ~10% more damage, and 400% more courage damage (enough to keep something suppressed, requires 14s of fire to suppress)

[Aertes]

A problem is that the animations for heavy bolter shooting on the move doesn't exist and would have to be created.

I'm going to be repetitive, but I still think that Purgators need to be closer to the other heavy weapon teams of the game: give them set-up time (shorter for the Incinerators to compensate their short range) and suppression.

I'm not a great player but I've tried to play Grey Knights once and again, and I just can't make them match or be competitive in the game when they lack a capacity (suppression) that everyone else in the game have. Moreover, that would help to differentiate the GK units a bit better.

[Roey]

Hey guys, I know you don't want the unfinished thing to go public yet, but can we have an ETA on 2.3.1? I've been checking every day desperate to play haha. Anything to distract me from University.

Also just thought I'd add/ask:

When playing Eldar, and using rangers, mine seem to cheat death sometimes by not needing to 'pack up' so to speak like other set-up teams need to, I.e. avoiding death by close combat unit, by gliding across the battlefield in retreat instead of packing up. Anyone else get that? Or is there something I missed?

[Caeltos]

There's unfortunately no ETA since it's continously being evaulated. Don't want to release things all messy and all that

[Ar-Aamon]

It's done when it's done xD

[Helios]

Any other updates so far? Or are the notes pretty much as-is concerning balance changes?

[HandSome SoddiNg]

some has Beta 4 alry i believe

[Ar-Aamon]

I suggest a short public beta before the release.

[Roey]

Can you at least tease me then and tell me roughly how many new skins are coming in, and if that damn music on the main page has been changed! Hot damn that tune is stuck in my head.

No one else with the Eldar issue then?

[Raffa]

There's a new Tyranid skin.

I suggest a short public beta before the release.

The problem with a "short public beta" is the release always ends up getting pushed back, that's just the nature of having 1 guy in charge of organising everything unfortunately. Also beta patches are for testing and especially when there are bugs etc.. people get annoyed when everyone's playing the beta patch and it has problems.

Basically beta 4 right now is people testing the new stuff, some different BOs etc., and all getting walloped by Noisy's Spess Mehreens.

[Dalakh]

Can you at least tease me then and tell me roughly how many new skins are coming in, and if that damn music on the main page has been changed! Hot damn that tune is stuck in my head.

No one else with the Eldar issue then?

I've seen rangers slide around while desetting a few times before so if anything I can say it's probably not related to this particular patch.

[sebi.costa]

How is the new cathacens? Are they doing well in testing?