New Faction

[ImperatoreXx]

Hello, I'm re-back on this discussion only to a point.
For myself DOW I, it is still alive thanks to UA, this mod, it is succeeding in more than one company and with many factions.
I believe that DOW II, is more complicated is already in a discussion has been said, so I think:
1) we balance the faction of the knights (with the other two commanders and an overall balance) or to integrate marine spacer as sub-faction.
2) Same goes for the Eldar, that if ever at first create the sub-faction then Dark Eldar and then make a complete playable faction.
3) chaos demon I do not think you need it !, unless you create a sub-faction within the chaos. Then it's up to you to see it as a faction!

[Tsototar]

I agree that Dark Eldar would be something that has less hurdles to implement (I think I posted about this in another thread, with a proposal for a wierd "countdown" red scheme).

I also can see a problem with "too many humans" (they're basically sort of overrepresented right now with both IG *and* SM. And... Chaos is basically a human faction anyway ).

But what I was hoping for is "novelty" in terms of gameplay, something "new", and I was thinking the Adeptus Mechanicus could have a "logical" scheme for a different kind of unit management, e.g. they have only one unit they build (basic Skitarii) and that everything after that is a matter of upgrading the Skitarii (the "story" would be that the units are grafted on with biomechanic upgrades etc.).

Plus... dangit I still think it'd be awesome to have a Titan as a superunit

[ytimk]

Let`s get two more heroes for GK first).

I still have a silly suggestion for that:

Note: stuff the fluff (let it inspire, but not strangle, design), also none of the following has been thoroughly thought out ESPECIALLY for balance

#1 - Custodian/Custodian Captain: SM in golden armour, pointy helmet, with a halberd like Strike Squad, BUT can jump around like the Warlock/Seer Council. Is more a warrior than leader: does not buff units/no buffing abilities because he likes to do shit himself and fights like a lion (taking inspiration from a certain Horus Heresy book here). Maybe a little like LA - fights better when alone?

#2 - The Lord Inquisitor (hat tip to Eramus Brosdau): Lord General model (looks like badass Gregor Eisenhorn?) with Inquisition troops as default. Can purchase retinue/henchmen:
-Mechanicus dude (TM model?) Fix stuff
-Priest/Acolyte heal stuff
-Psyker zap/shroud stuff
-Sororitas Battle Sister with giant flamer heh burn stuff
-Arbites with shotgun knock back stuff
-rogue xenos assistant (Eldar in massive cloak, or a cool Ork in disguise for the lulz) troll stuff

To differentiate it from being a Lord General clone, this hero could buy wargear to go full melee build and wreck faces on the front line.

#3 - troll option, requires new model etc - Lord Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov on his Throne of Judgement . Slowest unit in game, but has a combi bolter/flamer/melta on one side and a little dude of the other who yells stuff.

Factions:
I am grateful as always for the continued hard work the mod team (plus contributors and testers) put in, and even adding GK and making them unique is a phenomenal achievement. But, just airing dreams here, I would be happy with anything they put together, even if just for a bit of tech/art demo and fun: eg the units are completely and deliberately underpowered and all cost triple what they should and are hidden in T3. IF Dark Eldar was the easiet for the team and they thought it was possible, I'd be cool with that.

[Skyward Sorceror]

Hrmmm, to be honest there's quite too much Imperial Forces (Sm,Gm,GK). Now what I would love to see is a rise of Slaanesh related items, the noise marines MUST be lonely. Either that, or (Khorne help us) Tau.
I would rather see Slaanesh stuff then Tau or Necrons (Literally the two most unbelievably Ranged power factions the Dawn of War series has frigging seen.)

[Raven]

Personally, I'd love to see more Slaanesh stuff or the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Also, an Adeptus Sororitas sub-faction would be neat; they could start with flame weapons by default, with model count/health being a balance between the Astartes and the Guardsmen.

EDIT: Or perhaps we could add the Sororitas units to the Grey Knights? Because we all know how well that went in the fluff

[Skyward Sorceror]

Lol should you really be mocking your home chapter? XD
Hardly Loyalist actions, but that's totally Araghast.

[Grimngor]

Just to know, what is stopping the team from releasing a new army?
- For Tau I saw there is already a mod which has (at least) all the art, I mean the models, textures, etc. So that will be "easy" to implement, right?
- For the other strong candidate, Dark Eldar, Those you can reuse some models from Eldar, so it's another good candidate. Still will be lot's more work than Tau.
Thank you for the info!

[Oddnerd]

Just to know, what is stopping the team from releasing a new army?
- For Tau I saw there is already a mod which has (at least) all the art, I mean the models, textures, etc. So that will be "easy" to implement, right?
- For the other strong candidate, Dark Eldar, Those you can reuse some models from Eldar, so it's another good candidate. Still will be lot's more work than Tau.
Thank you for the info!

You can't just add a new army because the models are available. Each of the games races are balanced in the context of one-another... so each new race added probably tends to exponentially increase the difficulty of balancing the game. GK were the 7th race added and they are still not very well balanced. Adding a race that isn't a slight variation on the Space Marines, but instead a completely new faction, would be even more difficult.

[Caeltos]

- For Tau I saw there is already a mod which has (at least) all the art, I mean the models, textures, etc. So that will be "easy" to implement, right?

Potato animations for that faction. No audio (would require some VO work) unless you're fine with placeholder stuff (GK having IG/SM placeholder audio is tolerable) , however Tau differentiate abit too much from the existing factions so that it would be tough to find something that would be fine to work as placeholder.

[Evilwarboss]

im sorry i play elite mod SP, tyranid, SM AI are bad

up to a certain period of time the AI stop fighting back and idle specially spore mines.

sometime the game crashes after the sound is gone

overall i really like this mod

[egewithin]

im sorry i play elite mod SP, tyranid, SM AI are bad

up to a certain period of time the AI stop fighting back and idle specially spore mines.

sometime the game crashes after the sound is gone

overall i really like this mod

The sound problem, A.K.A. sound bug, is not came with this mod. It is an ancient tecnology given us by Relic. It increases the players rage and hatered on them. I suggest it for all new players around.

AI was always a moron in this game. But the modders tried to make it better as I remember but I don't remember why. You shouldn't play agianst AI. Actually, I better give you a list of you shouldn't play against;

1-) Dark Riku
2-) AI
3-) Noisy
4-) Aminion

[BloatedChamp]

Yeah, no placeholder Tau race. It's better a race is done right so that it feels distinct. Same with Dark Eldar.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

IMHO The only races that could have a possibility to be included in Elite are Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle, and only because there are models that could be used and modified to make the DE and SoB models. Still, there is going to required a fuckton of work to modify the models, without mention the effects, animations...

And then, the design of the race. The commanders. The abilities and wargears. The icons. The voices. The balance.

Think on GK, which is similar as fuck to SM. How many changes have received since the implementation? How many upgrades have been added and removed?

Don't misunderstand me. I would love to see more races (and units ) in Elite. But even as a shitty mekboy style modder, I know all the work that things required.

[Skyward Sorceror]

Yea... Lost is right, Elite is definitely not ready for a completely new faction. On the other hand reskin schemes are TOTALLY doable, I kinda wish there was a Elite mod for choosing the elite unlocks that are on your army paint scheme.

[BloatedChamp]

I don't get why Dark Eldar is any easier to implement. The dark eldar infantry can be made from eldar sure. But when it comes to the Vehicles, there are no references currently in-game. The dark eldar vehicles are so distinct because they are mostly open platforms and not covered tanks. This, I think it will be harder to implement.

Even Grey Knights don't have the dread knight yet, so I don't see dark eldar vehicles being created and implemented from scratch any time soon.



I liked what Tsotsatar is proposing and it makes sense to me.

The Skatarii units can easily be copies of existing models. If they are largely the only infantry you need, well that is even better.

IG vehicles can be used in their roster to fill in the vehicles role.

SM/Imperial guard voice lines can be used re-used.

I mean all the set pieces are there I think. Just needs re-modelling of infantry and vehicles.

(ps. I can't imagine the level of effort something like this takes, I am just here to give my opinion in this).

[Swift]

No more Imperial factions pleeeeeeeeeeeease.

[Hermione]

Can't we just grab sound files from DOW 1? Tau and Dark Eldar are both in there with beautiful sounds.

Also DE infantry isn't so bad, just add spikes ;d vehicles are a bit tougher that's for sure.

I don't really know much about technology but tabletop simulator has some 3d models of 40k armies, are those at all cross compatible to what dow 2 does?

[Lulgrim]

- For the other strong candidate, Dark Eldar, Those you can reuse some models from Eldar, so it's another good candidate.

Lol? Reuse what exactly? Have you seen Dark Eldar?

Can't we just grab sound files from DOW 1?

[Raven]

Sisters of Battle wouldn't be a bad idea, but I think that the only way they could be a unique-feeling faction at this point would be by having certain mechanics that may negatively affect balance (I'm actually doing some theorycrafting writing up an entire roster for the Sisters right now).
The Sisters of Battle would generally have Heavy Infantry armor, much like the Space Marines and their Chaos counterparts, but would have a but more emphasis on mobility and somewhat lower health pools; essentially somewhere between Space Marines and Eldar. Also, like in the lore, they LOVE closer-ranged weapony, particularly flamers and meltas.

A few of the ideas I have that may not be well-received would be:

-Having the basic Battle Sisters Squad be able to upgrade from bolters to flamer weapons at only a (relatively high) req cost, with no power needed. This would present a unique threat to swarm-based races (IG, Orks, and Nids) - so the drawback would be lower health pools. They could also instead take melta guns in t2 (but these upgrades cannot be swapped once chosen, unlike SM).

-Making Seraphim Squads a t1 ranged jumping unit, kinda like Warp Spiders, except with a purchasable champion that could provide light melee counter (I was thinking maybe a low-range, low-strength knockback, akin to a Sorcerer's special attack). They could also take melta guns and bombs in t2 (again, I know this may be poorly-balanced, but if they couldn't take meltas in t2, they'd be no more special than Raptors. Plus, look at Fire Dragons already ...).

-T2 Dominion Squad global call-in via Space Marine-style drop pod (yes, Sororitas do use Drop Pods in the lore). They could be a sort of anti-armor ranged unit, akin to the Eldar Dark Reapers, but with more of a leaning towards medium-range combat rather than long-range.

-Since the Sororitas often work alongside the Inquistion and Imperial Guard, they could be listed as an IG sub-faction and be allowed to use the Rocket Run global.

-Since the Sororitas literally worship the Emperor, their red resource could be called "Faith" and would be generated passively, like the Orks - so perhaps many of their abilities could use red, like the Orks' do.

[HARRYY]

nid overhaul would be nice.
tau implementation very doable, just a matter of time

[Cyris]

How about the "Munchkin" faction? Just a bunch of totally random units thrown together with a loose justification for what they all in the same army.

"I role-play as a chaos lord with a sorcerer and corrupted libby retinue that lead a fallen IG detachment. Dark magics from my enslaved Eldar allow me to emulate a synapse network for a small nid brood that I keep as pets. Illusions disguise me as a warboss to control a group of ork boyz and for no good reason I also have ASM."

This faction might end up easier to balance then Grey Knights, and won't require any new models!

[BloatedChamp]

How about the "Munchkin" faction? Just a bunch of totally random units thrown together with a loose justification for what they all in the same army.

"I role-play as a chaos lord with a sorcerer and corrupted libby retinue that lead a fallen IG detachment. Dark magics from my enslaved Eldar allow me to emulate a synapse network for a small nid brood that I keep as pets. Illusions disguise me as a warboss to control a group of ork boyz and for no good reason I also have ASM."

This faction might end up easier to balance then Grey Knights, and won't require any new models!

No...Just no..

[Swift]

How about the "Munchkin" faction? Just a bunch of totally random units thrown together with a loose justification for what they all in the same army.

"I role-play as a chaos lord with a sorcerer and corrupted libby retinue that lead a fallen IG detachment. Dark magics from my enslaved Eldar allow me to emulate a synapse network for a small nid brood that I keep as pets. Illusions disguise me as a warboss to control a group of ork boyz and for no good reason I also have ASM."

This faction might end up easier to balance then Grey Knights, and won't require any new models!

No...Just no..

It's still a better suggestion than more Imperial factions.

[Grimngor]

Can't we just grab sound files from DOW 1? Tau and Dark Eldar are both in there with beautiful sounds.

Also DE infantry isn't so bad, just add spikes ;d vehicles are a bit tougher that's for sure.

I don't really know much about technology but tabletop simulator has some 3d models of 40k armies, are those at all cross compatible to what dow 2 does?

That sound idea sounds like a great idea! Modding gods, Will it be doable?

Lol? Reuse what exactly? Have you seen Dark Eldar?

As said above you can "easily" rehuse the models for infantry there is "just" details and spikes to add. Same for the rifles, catapults are almost the same with spikes. Same once again for animations on that infantry an even some catapult shootin effects could be modifiec to suit dark eldar. So yes, resue is possible IMO, sure is little, but's better than nothing!
Im telling you this because I tried myself loooong ago and did a base model for DE infantry (no textures or animation but i did model it from aa Eldar). Don't judge quality was loooong ago as I said!

[The extension jpg has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[Wise Windu]

For the infantry, maybe, and I've made visual effects for things before, but you'd still need the vehicles (none exist afaik), sounds and voices (there would be abilities that wouldn't quite look or sound right with existing animations and Dow 1 voice lines), portraits and ability icons, and UI space for additional races (3 heroes) which it is currently not possible to make. And none of us have any experience making new models or animations.

If the units were already made, it still wouldn't be possible due to the previously mentioned UI issues. The only reason GK works is that they only have one hero.

[Lulgrim]

That sound idea sounds like a great idea! Modding gods, Will it be doable?

No, it’s fucking illegal… why do people keep bringing this up?

As said above you can "easily" rehuse the models for infantry there is "just" details and spikes to add. Same for the rifles, catapults are almost the same with spikes. Same once again for animations on that infantry an even some catapult shootin effects could be modifiec to suit dark eldar.

Yeah so that’s their starting infantry modified from Guardians, but then what? Still need another dozen units and a hero. Where do we scavenge Hellions, beasts, and vehicles from? 90% of the faction needs scratch-built models (takes a while but possible) and animations (we have no-one who can do it and these bizarre units would be extra difficult). After that we could start discussing the voices etc.

[egewithin]

Yeah so that’s their starting infantry modified from Guardians, but then what? Still need another dozen units and a hero. Where do we scavenge Hellions, beasts, and vehicles from? 90% of the faction needs scratch-built models (takes a while but possible)

Just to be more helpful ;

We can change Heretic models for that. We have enough muscle arms and spikes already.

Now I am going to ask something hard but the answers is only a yes or no. Can you make those flying Eldar tank models to a feet size and make a squad of them? The animations of attacking can be like Guardsmen trying to melee but there are dozens of questions about it. Maybe we don't even need this unit, why the modders should get tired about it?

Normal Dire Avenger skeleton should be helpful at this point. Can't they jump like ASM? What makes it hard to make it happen? ( To vanish the curiosity and to see our - your - limits of cource, the question itself wasn't very cool )

A bunch of Farseer two handed weapon models ?

What if you make some Slaaneshi / Eldarly cosmetic to Lord General and change retinues / helpers / rest of squad / slaves those Farseer models in men form ? (Remove boobs from the model I say )

Inquisitor model with a ranged weapon.

[BloatedChamp]

Yeah so that’s their starting infantry modified from Guardians, but then what? Still need another dozen units and a hero. Where do we scavenge Hellions, beasts, and vehicles from? 90% of the faction needs scratch-built models (takes a while but possible) and animations (we have no-one who can do it and these bizarre units would be extra difficult). After that we could start discussing the voices etc.