Dealing with ASM as Warlock

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Laplace's Demon
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Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Laplace's Demon » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 4:03 am

How the hell are you supposed to deal with ASM as warlock? Typical build is:

Eldar

Warlock
x2 guardians
x1 banshee
x1 shuriplat

SM

FC
x1 tac
x2 scout
x1 ASM

I keep banshees in reserve behind the shuriplat and x2 guardians in front, trying to use warlock to tie up the tacs. guardians focus the scouts then the FC, but always need to retreat before them because shotguns. It seems like the timing is always in favor of the SM, because guardians always get forced off letting the rest focus the banshees as they try to counter initiate the ASM. God help you if they get another ASM...

Whats the play around? It seems like this match-up goes in SM favor every time.
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egewithin
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby egewithin » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 5:34 am

Why Banshee trap is not working? It is the best tactic ever!

Get double Shrunkens then. When ASM jumps on Shrunken, second one will handle them. You are free what to do after ASM retreats.

PS: ASM + 2x shotguns = 80 powaa in T1. Go bash some power and out tech him if you can with a Wraithlord.
Paranoid Kamikaze
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 6:29 am

Have Banshees and Warlock both engage the ASM`s when they jump. You need Merciless Witchblade to take out their energy so they can`t make a second jump. Micro the Warlock so he doesn`t waste his charge jump on them.

The FC will try to use Alacrity to chase the Shuri as it runs from the ASM so you will have to use your Warlocks jump knockdown as he does that.

Use Distort Field on Banshees if you have the red as the Tacs and Scouts will be focusing them.

If there are shotguns, wait until the guardians have forced the Scouts off before you tie up Tacs with the Warlock.

You win if your Shuri manages to re-setup or depending on knockbacks in the fight against the ASM`s.
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Adeptus Noobus
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 9:25 am

The key to this engagement is micro-management. Paranoid laid it out very well. In addition you should make sure that the shotguns don't hit both your DAs.

@firatwithin That is ONLY wise if you have managed to force him of entirely since Eldar are not very good at bashing power in T1. Also, it is my opinion that you need at least the following to match that build:
Aspect for shees - 20 power
Shuri - 30 power
MWB - 35(!!!) power
At least one battle equipment to spike dmg on retreating ASMs - 15 power
And that is why you will fall flat on your nose with your fast-tech idea.

P.S: If your micro allows it or if you are familiar with the hotkeys, try to use stance switching on the Warlock to combat the FC. The MWB does knockback on ranged attacks and thus will prevent the FC from getting into combat and you don't run into the problem of the WL using the leap prematurely. He can use battlecry to counter but then you made him waste a few seconds of it by trying to get into combat in which case it will have run out ideally when he reaches the fight. By that time the Shuriken will also have re-setup.
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Ace of Swords
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Ace of Swords » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:50 am

2 shuries are terrible vs asm, you are asking to get raped by infiltrated scouts, go with runes + champion's robe, counter-initiziate with shees, pop the runes, when you see shotties or another jump to stop your from casting pop the champion's robe shield and they are likely to lose the engagement and ASM as well if you have swift movement and he has nothing to stop your shees.

Don't waste power on MWB in T1, go for it in t2 or just go for the withchblade of kuronos later in the game, also in the MU at least 1 squad of rangers is essential.
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Tex
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Tex » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 1:43 pm

Mostly agree with Ace.

MWB is a huge power sink for a shadow of its former self. Better power expenditure is the channeling runes and champions robe. Once you get good at utilizing this, you will also find that your warlock will now bait a ton of attention where before he was quite easy to ignore. This will distract a ton of fire from your DA's and your banshees.

I still feel like the ranger purchase is optional, DA's warlock leader can get the job done decently, but there is no question that grenades coming from invisible sources is basically the most powerful thing in this meta. If you notice your opponent investing heavily in his scouts, then it is highly recommended that you employ the massive true sight range of rangers.
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Aetherion
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Aetherion » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 6:08 pm

As an expansion to this, my friend who plays FC tends to go for TH/teleport and melee dread in T2 and is able to bully his way through Eldar lines, so what counter is suitable? The adaptability of the dread makes me adverse to going for falcon or wraithlord, leaving only infantry which the TH massacres.
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The_Corniflox
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby The_Corniflox » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 7:45 pm

Aetherion wrote:As an expansion to this, my friend who plays FC tends to go for TH/teleport and melee dread in T2 and is able to bully his way through Eldar lines, so what counter is suitable? The adaptability of the dread makes me adverse to going for falcon or wraithlord, leaving only infantry which the TH massacres.


He he






Anyways, Merciless Witchblade is an extremely annoying counter for asm. It also helps to pre-desetup your shuri, so if the asm jump you can kite them easier. And of course you should alwys keep your banshees back until the asm jump, since they are your ultimate counter.
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Tex
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Tex » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:20 am

Aetherion wrote:As an expansion to this, my friend who plays FC tends to go for TH/teleport and melee dread in T2 and is able to bully his way through Eldar lines, so what counter is suitable? The adaptability of the dread makes me adverse to going for falcon or wraithlord, leaving only infantry which the TH massacres.

I have also struggled against a thunder hammer FC as eldar. The damage from that special is borderline retarded in a lot of instances. As the warlock, I feel like you really need to focus on splitting and evading. You really don't have an early/mid T2 counter to the thunder hammer (during battlecry) other than an overwhelming amount of focus fire. I'm thinking that if you can bait out the battlecry with a single squad, and use channeling runes on them while you use your other squads to get damage done, that might be your best bet. You will at least mitigate the damage being doing, but again, it is 100% dependent on splitting your squads so that the FC cant to maximum aoe damage.
Paranoid Kamikaze
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 6:14 am

The entire point of a Force Commander buying the Thunder Hammer is for the special attack with Battle Cry, which he will only use on a Banshee or a Seer Council squad. Bait it out by Fleet of Footing past him with Shees and you won't be hit. Once it's on cooldown, attack him as normal. Another tactic is to throw your Banshees at him and retreat immediately once he pops Battle Cry. Use a Webway or use Fleet of Foot to quickly get back on the field after.

A Dreadnought is a poor choice for a FC in a 1v1 as two repair units is not enough to repair that massive health pool quick enough as well as maintain map control. Space Marine players have to get three repair squads to properly support a Dread, which is why mainly only Tech Marines will get one.
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Aguxyz
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Aguxyz » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 7:21 am

channeling of skill = gg asm
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Adeptus Noobus
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Re: Dealing with ASM as Warlock

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 9:00 am

Dark Reapers now have the Pinning Fire ability from the beginning without having to pay for it. Spreading out your army and having the FC pinned down should help imo. They should fit well into your army anyway because of their inferno dmg type.
Ace mentioned Rangers, which also suppress but I fear one single squad does not suppress fast enough and Kinetic Pulse does not work on him while Battlecry is active.
In my opinion a Dreadnought is always a good idea because Eldar seem to struggle against it a lot. Force of the enemy and then repair with just one squad of Scouts. With the FC and ASM tying everything up, your Dread should not be taking too much damage.

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