Using "Without Number"

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Woodenplank
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Using "Without Number"

Postby Woodenplank » Thu 26 Jul, 2018 11:13 pm

300 req, and 200 red is in the expensive end for globals. And given that it requires T3, and spawns a couple of (upgraded) T1 units, I'm not sure how best to make use of this Tyranid Global.
I realize that it also reinforces nearby Tyranids but - and it's the noob talking here - I find that the domino effect of losing Synapse units means my infatry gets pushed off the field too fast any way.

I also rarely see other Tyranid players use it, but that could just be lack of perceptiveness.
oLev
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby oLev » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 4:06 am

It's generally not worth it just for the sake of getting those units.
Unleveled hormagaunts will not beat end game tactical marines even if they are dropped directly into melee and those termas will melt in an instant. They also instantly tank your endgame eco with their huge upkeep cost.
However, carnifex can't cap so if you have nothing else around...
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Rostam
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Rostam » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 9:07 am

without number can be game winning especially late game. it gives you 2 units if not can be used as cappers, are very useful
Toxin sachs can slow down other units, and hormaguant with glands are so scary especially with synapse
Imagine when enemy has a walker and a tank that has to comitt 2 repair units to them as well, speedy hormagaunts can do alot for you in here
fully gaunts and gants upgraded are very expensive not to mention this global drops them while reinforcing everything else
plus nids most of the times have lots of red
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Woodenplank
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Woodenplank » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 1:38 pm

oLev wrote:It's generally not worth it just for the sake of getting those units.

Rostam wrote:without number can be game winning especially late game. it gives you 2 units if not can be used as cappers, are very useful


Yikes.

But thanks for replies! Always appreciated, and I guess I'll mostly keep it as a backhand "capping units" - as sometimes my late game 5xCarnifex army has trouble capping...
But yeah, spending 300/200 in T3 to drop a couple T1 units feels baaad.
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Rostam
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Rostam » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 1:48 pm

about the price
gaunts and gant 270-240
with upgrades aditional 60-15* 2 = about 700req - 30power
its only 300 and a bunch of red

Generally rushing t3 as nids is the best idea since carnifexes are not as good as tanks (for various reason like mobility,repair support)
and are expensive
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Cyris
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Cyris » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 3:11 pm

I agree the knockback is annoying. But it really does a good job refilling your capping army for a reasonably low price. I spend all my power on fexes, and squeeze without number inbetween to get more gaunts for capping. It makes for a nice "beginning of T3" timing as well. Works a lot better if you have some warriors handy in need of minions to buff.

It used to cost only red which was insane, but the 300 req might still be too high for how badly gaunts/gants preform in T3, but that's also by design.
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Rostam
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Rostam » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 3:40 pm

I dont think power would be a huge deal (as u mentioned u would use it on fex) since nids usually have requsition problem
also red isnt a huge problem neither since they gain bunch of red by deing, since u gain a portion of red when ur models die (not as much as killing but still a good amount) and nids have lots of bleed so they gain a bunch of red
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” Leon Tolstoy
Woodenplank
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Woodenplank » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 8:12 pm

Rostam wrote:about the price
gaunts and gant 270-240
with upgrades aditional 60-15* 2 = about 700req - 30power
its only 300 and a bunch of red

Generally rushing t3 as nids is the best idea since carnifexes are not as good as tanks (for various reason like mobility,repair support)
and are expensive


I'm well aware that the pricing is, theoretically, awesome.
Buying the equivalent units (thought they don't have *Endless Swarm* upgrade) is expensive; a full price of 650/30.

But I'm not opposed to the pricing of the ability much, it's mostly its strength that bothers me. There's a reason why people never build more Hormies/Termagants in T3 - and it's not because they're overpriced. They're just pretty close to useless at that point, unless your enemy is seriously depleted and also relying on surviving T1 units or whatever.
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Rostam
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Rostam » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 8:22 pm

yes that is true building gaunts and gants out of HQ in t3 doesnt make any sense at all termigaunts are especially useless by then,but calling them
is another thing, it all depends on the situations and factors as we discussed before my friend. you might wanna win the engagement or want a capper/harrasment unit. other than that if you have time and a good position with support of strong t2 units such as zoans and synapse venom sure can wait out for carnifex instead. also T3 lictor is a damn good option as well

PS: In fact there was a very good 1v1 between Holyhammer and freeman tonight, freeman randomed HT vs Hammer's wse ,freeman relied on mass hormaguants which did some work to be said . i will try to find the replay then we can also keep that in perspective, will help alot

Edited: Ok Found it here it is, attached here since it was not on ESL (it is a warm up game for their bo3 league game)
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1v1 Freeman v Holyhammer (Vulkan Pits).rec
(1.32 MiB) Downloaded 206 times
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” Leon Tolstoy
Woodenplank
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Woodenplank » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 8:54 pm

Thanks a lot for the replay, and the replies Rostam! Much appcreciated.

Rostam wrote:PS: In fact there was a very good 1v1 between Holyhammer and freeman tonight, freeman randomed HT vs Hammer's wse

Is it wierd that my first intuition upon reading "wse" was not Warp Spider Exarch, but rather "Warlock Space Elf"? :P
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Rostam
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Rostam » Fri 27 Jul, 2018 9:09 pm

no worries. bare in mind this is a very high lvl game. holyhammer is probably the best WSE through out the entire history of dow2. yet with the aggressive melee build play of nids freeman managed to do a good job . also talking about gaunts and gant and withoutnumber reminds me; using spore mines and rippers when and where u can is a big step towrads victory ,barbed carni has spores , TBC has rippers, and towers can spawn both

These little units gaunts,gants,rippers,spores might sound insignificant but they do alot through the course of the game
you can see them go to work on this game, a perfect example

PS: come to think of it getting a unit from the global also has one more benefit, its the build time, u pretty much neglect the time in which u need to build a unit from HQ so even for things like TGs that are dropped in base that is a bonus coming to the field faster
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Dark Riku
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 28 Jul, 2018 7:58 pm

Well, it's not a global that you always want to use. I do like it personally though.

I use it in case I lose my T1 units. Crippling is still a very good control ability.
Or when I want more quads to cap.

Come T3, you can also drop it on those pesky AV units so your monsters can run free in those game deciding engagements.
Or on another high priority unit.
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Adila
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Adila » Sat 28 Jul, 2018 8:02 pm

The game on vulcan pits was not a warm up its just not saved on the esl yet, but it was a League game.
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Rostam
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Rostam » Sat 28 Jul, 2018 8:13 pm

@Adila
lucky thing i saved it . Also good to know it is a league game that makes it 2-1 for freeman out of bo3 tnx for letting us know

@Riku
well in t3 to tie up the av there is always the option of rippers to tieing up the av units which are shooting the carnifexes and sending those guys to cap instead, since hormaguants are really fast and back capping might be the diffrence at that stage, Reapers are also pretty hard to target so would be a better option to send at things like brigh lace,lascanon or other enemy av rather than hormaguants that are pretty fast
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Dark Riku
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Re: Using "Without Number"

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 28 Jul, 2018 8:50 pm

Rostam wrote:@Riku
well in t3 to tie up the av there is always the option of rippers to tieing up the av units which are shooting the carnifexes and sending those guys to cap instead, since hormaguants are really fast and back capping might be the diffrence at that stage, Reapers are also pretty hard to target so would be a better option to send at things like brigh lace,lascanon or other enemy av rather than hormaguants that are pretty fast
Yes, if you thought that far ahead.
Otherwise the call-in option is available for you instantly.
That was my point.

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