Recent Plague Marine spams.

[The Great Kenny]

I have a small problem, i never found Plague marines so annoying before and i know they cost 450 req and 40 power, the problem is that recently there have been a lot of players that have been spamming Plague marines in squads of 3-4, not to mention heretics building the nurgle shrines, however i am a diehard imperial guard player, and i usually find ways to counter many units in Elite, the problem is that Plague marine spams are going too far, i have tried heavy weapon squads, they get bombed by blight nades, i have tried catachans, can't even shoot once the plague marines before getting killed in retreat by the poison, i have tried artillery spotters whit heavy weapons squads, they still don't care since they got simply launch their global noxious cloud, taking out most of my stuff since i am concentrated trying to deal whit 3 squads of plague marines, i have tried Trolltrooper spams whit lord general sniper range buff, they use global, all trolltroopers die, plague marines just reinforcing, getting healed by the shrine and their own explosions, i destroy shrine but still their explosions heal them, i have tried manticore, they dodge 2 or 1 missiles, no model dies even if i have storm eagle upgrades, they just loose 20% or 50% of their HP, and other vehicles.... Not even the baneblade lasts 20 seconds and the demolisher just takes out a 40% of their hp BY A DIRECT HIT and whit luck 1 model, finally i get nuke, i use them, succesfully landed them on both rocket runs, they just lost half of their hp BY BOTH ROCKET RUN. I have tried... A lot ... Of things... And the only time.. I could deal whit them, was whit space marine double plasma cannon, therefore whit IG i can't find a way to deal whit them, i need help besides ogryns cuz ogryns just die cuz of the massive explosion fest... Not even whit lord general Incoming! Sargeant Medi-Kit and commisar refractor they survive, and i am talking about an outflank of 2 ogryn squads including the general and some cats devils and guardsman (Depending on T1 situation) And i end up loosing 1 squad of ogryns, guardsman just dropped like flies in 4 seconds by Noxious Cloud, and catachans just ran away to the valkyre. Can somebody recomend me imperial guard counters (Yeah i have tried double manticore, and still i just end up killing 1 or 2 while the rest are just dancing around the nurgle shrines) yeah i have tried also stormtrooper decaping but they suddendly find a turret and then get greeted in retreat by meele heretics and some plague marines, finally getting killed by the poison) Personally i would suggest to limit the number of plague marines squads in the field to two, if it's possible, i know programming is hard and i won't ask more than that. If i get a no it's not necessary or a it can't be done i will completely understand and deal whit it and depend on eldar D-Cannons and plasma cannons.

[Tex]

Fully upgraded guardsmen squads absolutely destroy plague marines when you have a chimera behind you. Keep them split up and watch out for the things that hurt the most: blight grenades and noxious cloud.

Something else that comes to mind is 2x Assault Kit Storm Troopers. Unload your full clip, and then reposition. You can also do your shooting from a cloaked state which will provide you with an additional level of protection from ranged fire. These guys should have no problem taking down the shrine, picking off the PC, or going to work on the plague marines.

[Lichtbringer]

Not that I think Plaguemarinespam is a problem, but what would the counterbuild as Eldar be?^^

[The Great Kenny]

Actually i agree a lot whit this idea since i rarely use the chimera against this spams, i usually go healing bunker but i tend to forget in mid game that guardsman can die by getting touched by a lit cigarrett i will put the chimera on the back and focus guardsman whit plasma guns and commisars hoping that some chaos termies don't come out"

Fully upgraded guardsmen squads absolutely destroy plague marines when you have a chimera behind you. Keep them split up and watch out for the things that hurt the most: blight grenades and noxious cloud.

Something else that comes to mind is 2x Assault Kit Storm Troopers. Unload your full clip, and then reposition. You can also do your shooting from a cloaked state which will provide you with an additional level of protection from ranged fire. These guys should have no problem taking down the shrine, picking off the PC, or going to work on the plague marines.

I have actually tried that already in a similar way but they always end up winning since even if i destroy the shrine, i have to keep shooting at the heretics, not to mention that i have to position a stormtrooper squad or my commander to give sight to others, usually risking at getting them outshot or detected by the heretic aspiring champion, in maps for example calderis refinery this might work but i have never tried it becouse i have never found CSM plague marine spam in that map, therefore this is hard and risky to pull out in maps like argus desert gate where green cover is everywhere and some of them are not even crushable by the sentinel plague marines usually take the spot and even whit constant volleys they still keep getting an insane HP regen, i know shrines, but the problem are the aspiring champion heretics, wich i can also focus but due to their reinforce cost they don't retreat them, so it is difficult to put a stormtrooper or commander to reveal the area in the map where the shrine is present, cuz they will usually get poisoned to the ass not to mention that there are sometimes mark of tzeentch CSM present wich does massive ammounts of damage, letting the poison of the plague marines finally finish them off in retreat( Wich rarely happens) however i grew interested in the chimera tactic, i just hope that a single plague marine don't put a rocket on it, cuz then it's just game over since there are always 2 or 3 squads ready to finish off.

[Dark Riku]

PM's explosions do not heal the other PM's.

If your opponent has only PM's then Ogryns should be uncontested.
If you're flanking the PM's with 2 ogryn squads and your upgraded hero, I do not see how it is even possible to lose that engagement.

As Tex said, GM's with chimera in the back, which you can hop into when those AoE's try to hit you, can work. Out range them with LG sniper rifle. And so on.
This also seems to be coming from a 3v3 perspective? In that case you can rely on your team mates as well.

[Bahamut]

PM's explosions do not heal the other PM's.

They do, just not plague marines of the same squad. But they are capable of healing plague marines of OTHER squads

[Sub_Zero]

No, you can get a billion of plagues marines and none of them will benefit from a dead model of their brethren. I raised this problem as a balance problem since I think that within a squad the models shouldn't benefit from that but any other squad of plague marines should receive healing.

[Dark Riku]

PM's explosions do not heal the other PM's.

They do, just not plague marines of the same squad. But they are capable of healing plague marines of OTHER squads

No they don't unless I and Myrdal are mistaken, feel free to prove it though

[The Great Kenny]

Yeah i will try GM whit chimera, tough recently it hasn't thankfully happen, and yes it came from a 3 vs 3 perspective, and about the plague marines exploding on death heal, i might be mistaking it by the shrine healing Aura, however i will quickly put that on proof in a bot match, if they heal or not i will inmediatly post, and about the ogryns, i lost it becouse of the Aura of tzeentch CSM, plague marine whit pestilent strike wich stunned my ogryns, wich quickly shot down my bone'eads disabling the ogryn 'use ur eads!' (I don't remember if it was called like that) that is how i lost that engagement. Leaving me whit no more option than just use Chimera, GM support, however, would you recommend me using the beacon relay in Chimera and the healing bunker? Or just mobile chimera?

[The Great Kenny]

PM's explosions do not heal the other PM's.

They do, just not plague marines of the same squad. But they are capable of healing plague marines of OTHER squads

No they don't unless I and Myrdal are mistaken, feel free to prove it though

BUSTED (EDIT): Plague marines explosions don't heal other plague marines but they DO heal other CSM units, however i tought they could heal other plague marines and i had mistaken it whit the Plague shrine healing rings while killing some sorry about that, but that they do heal other CSM units they do, tough i don't have any problem against it since i tought the explosions healed other Plague marines also

[The Great Kenny]

Btw so many thanks to all the replies to this post, i hope i can pull up well the Chimera support GM plan. Every day i fall even more in love whit the community in elite ^_^

[Tex]

I just played against this today in a 1v1 setting. The most effective unit I built against it was ogryns. They had 0 trouble with the plague marines.

The double TCSM support did hurt a bit, but I relegated myself to flanking, and soaked up the majority of the fire with my 2x GM squads. They were almost completely uncontested from range. I also had 2x AKST's and they did some serious work. Plague marines can barely land a shot on these guys.

I will post the replay soonish.

[Deflaktor]

Not that I think Plaguemarinespam is a problem, but what would the counterbuild as Eldar be?^^

I had success with warp spider spam as a counter measure. They really put a hurt but also bleed a lot. Had 3 warp spider squads vs 4 plague marine squads. It was really fun seeing those plague marines explode so fast.

[Atlas]

You could also fire dragon spam vs it.

[The great Cornholio]

well most of the players that spam plagues are either not very good/creative... og just super lazy... i say plaugemarine spam is not the whole problem... the problem for me is that way to many chaos players just make mark of T and plaugemarines and make them into a big blob and then move the blob around for 20 min. like it was an anti all unit .. ( it more or less is )... i think the only way to do something about this is to play with decent players that dont do this kind of stuff....i have stopped playing with people that spam like that along time ago cause its boring and pointless and i almost never make more than 2 units of the same kind cause i find it super gay.... iam still hoping for max to see the light and stop spamming turrets... you can always dream right?

[Tex]

Here is a replay of Ogryns and 2x AKST's against 2x TCSM and 2x PM's.

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... ost9830610

[Sub_Zero]

That idiot woulda won that game if he had purchased a tank. Why go T3 when you then go full retard and buy a T2 dread and don't even bother to upgrade it!!!

All I saw in that game is the unstoppable dominance of plague marines that had you baselocked basically. When he lost his dread he lost that game...

And "hahaha" indeed. I would laugh at such a fool as well (he even had his marines in one control group and captured points in this fashion...)

Conclusion - nothing that proves something in terms of balance of this MU, just a terrible mistake made by a player.

[Tex]

Oh for sure. I'm not denying that he should have won. But it's not like I played anything close to a perfect game either lol.

The point of the replay is that ATSK's and Ogryns can put some serious hurt on this so called "unstoppable OP chaos blob".

[The great Cornholio]

OMG... i laughed my ass off when i saw that replay of tex and that EL player.... maybe he will think twice before insulting tex next time
he just plays soooooooo cheesy... uses 2 units for capping.. blooping all his units together... uggh.. iam just happy Tex whooped his ass...
i think 2 ogryn squads would have sealed the deal since plaugumarines are pathetic in melee even with the explosion on death..

[Atlas]

Lol EL in 1v1. Fish out of water there.

Just as a side mention, don't disrespect the vanilla CDread anymore. It's solid enough by itself. I haven't watched the replay yet but it's no longer awful to keep it vanilla for a while.

[Dullahan]

Not that I think Plaguemarinespam is a problem, but what would the counterbuild as Eldar be?^^

Wraithguard work pretty well.