Rocket Run is bad.

[bibotot]

I posted this before. After a dozen games or so, my stand still holds. Now that a new patch is coming, please do something about it. it is unfair that the IG nuke is the weakest in the game like that. It does little damage against vehicles and can NEVER EVER EVER EVER wipe out entire army of anything. The Tyranid one is bad, but at least it causes a lot of distraction and panicking. Rocket Run fails even to do that being the only nuke that allows people to walk out unscathed.

Take this as a point of consideration. Any other nuke (except Tyranids), right on top of my army, 0.5 second retreat, still lost a few squads. Rocket Run, 2 seconds before my opponent presses the Retreat, lost few models and not a single squad. I know people have wiped out squads with the new Rocket Run, but take into account whether your opponent is truly someone at the same level as you are, or a guy who plays for fun and does not care much. I play competitively, and the new Rocket Run ruins that.

Nukes don't always work in Company of Heroes, in fact they fail half the time, but Dawn of War usually exists large hold-up when both players have substantial armies since units here are more difficult to wipe out. Players really need those nuke to break the deadlock.

Can't we just have the old Rocket Run back? Did any IG player have any say in the process of decision making when this was passed out?

[Dark Riku]

Good thing then that the IG nuke isn't the weakest by a long shot. And it can wipe armies with ease.
The bullshit about the Tyranid nuke being bad needs to stop as well.
This kind of post will get you nowhere. Just L2P.

[Kvn]

I've been playing Lord Commissar for a while now, and I personally believe that the nerf to the nuke was necessary. It would pretty much wipe out any infantry force with no opportunity for a reaction from the opponent. Even Eldritch and Roks didn't hit as quickly or as precisely thanks to how the user could orient the two charges.

The new version is still plenty killy. It's just a matter of timing it in the middle of an engagement when an opponent is more heavily tasked with microing their troops. If he doesn't get out of the way immediately, he's going to be in a world of hurt. Remember, even retreating won't save you from this as the runs do ability knockback, making them great at retreat killing if you can time it properly.

Just my two cents. Rocket Run was way too good before, and is in a much more stable place now. Still powerful, but not impossible to play around.

[bibotot]

Good thing then that the IG nuke isn't the weakest by a long shot. And it can wipe armies with ease.
The bullshit about the Tyranid nuke being bad needs to stop as well.
This kind of post will get you nowhere. Just L2P.

You are top player. Of course you make everything works. For middle players, it is difficult.

Consider players of the same level duking out against each other and you will see why Rocket Run usually under-perform compared to other nukes.

[terpterp]

I'm a mid level player. Rocket run is totally acceptable, and pretty good.

[Bahamut]

Good thing then that the IG nuke isn't the weakest by a long shot. And it can wipe armies with ease.
The bullshit about the Tyranid nuke being bad needs to stop as well.
This kind of post will get you nowhere. Just L2P.

which nuke is the worst for you?

[Sub_Zero]

It is a bad thing to go on the forum to post something balance-related when you just had negative game experience. When you lose you can't adequately estimate what happened to you. You start blaming the balance not yourself. If you ever will to post something on the forum after a bad game then at least watch the replay again and study your mistakes. Sometimes it is tempting to call something OP/UP because you had negative experience with that. But you have to sit down, calm down and analyze everything when you are mentally stable and able to think productively and your judgement isn't shrouded by anger. That is at least what I felt that it had been the case with you when I read your post because the words you said aren't close to how it happens in the game. The nuke of IG has great killing potential because of its predictability - you can expect units to go in certain direction way and launch the nuke accordingly to that (and roll them along the lenght of this nuke and deliver every single bit of damage making certain squads dead).

P. S. BS that the nuke of tyranids is any good needs to stop as well It or the one of space marines are good pretendents to be considered the worst nuke in the game. I even have a proposition to differentiate the costs of the existing nukes because they aren't the same and all of them shouldn't have that 500 red cost (475, 450, even lower than that for some nukes).

[DandyFrontline]

Was OP before. Now it's fine, but i wont be mind if it will get a very little reduced time between runs (but maybe it's just because IG is my favourite faction, so any buff is appreciated )

[Skyward Sorceror]

Well if you get good at using Basilisk Creeping Barrages, your not going to get any problems with Rocket Run, they both are about prediction with abit of timing (And no small amount of distraction on the victim's part).

The only difference being you have to co-ordinate a second line of attack, and that Rocket Run is insanely fast as a bombing/rocket launch run should be. On a sorta unrelated note, damn that Global is well named, the explosions just creeping towards the end.

[saltychipmunk]

Good thing then that the IG nuke isn't the weakest by a long shot. And it can wipe armies with ease.
The bullshit about the Tyranid nuke being bad needs to stop as well.
This kind of post will get you nowhere. Just L2P.

I prefer to call the nid nuke difficult to use rather than call it bad. most of time it is only the middle spire that does anything consistently with the outside spires being left to pot luck on where the middle spire throws the survivors.

but the synapse bit is useful in its own way, especially if you have a tyrant guard and had your synapse creatures forced off.



The way i see rocket run is that you trade some of its damage (vs tanks) for the fact that it is easy to aim and offers a ton of options for use.

even with the delay nerf it is easily the second best nuke behind the eldar storm.


honestly i think the worst nuke is still probably the sm one as it is extremely difficult to get full squad kills. You will get a ton of damage and disruption and putting it on a retreat path is always good mischief .. but as a stand alone global is lacks that certain lethality .

[Atlas]

I'm a mid level player. Rocket run is totally acceptable, and pretty good.

Qft.

[Adeptus Noobus]

After a 3 second delay, 7 Capillary Towers begin to erupt from the ground. The center tower emerges first, doing 175 explosive damage in radius 7. The second, fourth and sixth towers deal 175 explosive damage in a radius 10, while the third and fifth towers deal 50 explosive damage in a radius 7. The final tower deals 50 explosive damage in a radius 10. All towers do ability knockback on emerging and emit a Capillary synapse in radius 45, affecting non-Warrior and non-hero allied Tyranids (increasing ranged damage by 15% and reducing received damage by 15%). Also increases speed of Tyranid commanders and infantry by 50% in a radius 100 for 23 seconds after emerging. 120 second cooldown.

This nuke is not shit at all. It does loads of damage, but the most important thing is that it emits a speed buff- and damage buff synapse in a huge radius. It suits the Tyranny aggro-style perfectly. Good luck surviving the incoming attack.

The Rocket-run is in a very good place atm. If it is a lack of experience that keeps you from performing well, then that's just that: lack of experience. If you place it well it WILL absolutely devastate non-retreating and retreating units alike.

[Dark Riku]

P. S. BS that the nuke of tyranids is any good needs to stop as well

L2P

[Oddnerd]

Possibly the best nuke in the game. It has no random element to it and with proper placement of the 2nd run you can ruin an entire army.

[Sub_Zero]

Wall of insults removed. User was warned for this post. - Indrid

[Adeptus Noobus]

The language....The irony....

[Aguxyz]

L2P

You should be banned from the forum, cunt.

If you throw this phrase when someone expresses his opinion on something controversial then you deserve a good slap on your "charming" (lol, nerd, do you even get some pussy? I bet you take dicks) bitch-face.

This nuke is easy as fuck to dodge, it is super-predictable and it is pretty random in that when the first spire appears and throws targets you can't really be sure that the other spires will hit anything. Also the damage is pretty mediocre. So what is your opinion, cunt? But I don't need your bitch's opinion. It IS the worst nuke and no bitch will make me think otherwise, especially you.

You are not able to adequately express your opinions. So often you type short arrogant messages that only show that your pussy disagrees with something. You don't bother to properly argue. Why the fuck are you here?

Good thing this forum supports the function of banning people. From now on I don't see your messages, you don't exist anymore for me, my eyes can't see posts of whores that you are, I should have done it way earlier.

L2P

[Black Relic]

Relax Zero.
Riku that was rude.

But on topic first. Rocket run is pretty good. Its not really meant to deal with vehicles and more so for infantry. Since Ability knockback still knocks infantry when they are in retreat you you can predict where the infantry will path to get to their hq and weasily wip a squad or at least inflict heavy loses to your opponent which will delay them in getting a unit that they need to change the game. Ig have amazing tank that deal with other tanks pretty well. Rocket Run may not deal with vehicles but it does deal with their support I.E repair squads or an AV HWT that causes a headache and have a very good chance of wiping it.

As for the tyranids nuke. Well zero you are correct that is does serve as a distraction and cause lot of disruption it does alot more than just that. The first spire has a very low delay in dealing its damage and the spire also not only emit a basic synapse (if memory serves me) but also buffs the Tyranids speed while the nuke is going off. So you use it to support a push and much less to kill an army. Although It can one shot a HWT that isn't at least level 3. And the spire automatically destroy a building which can be enormous is certain situations. If your facing IG and the Have a bunker position your nuke to kill the bunker automatically. You don't have to place the center of the nuke on the bunker, and spire will one shot it. And when your IG opponent who sees that they either withdraw or take a huge hit. unlike most nuke this is used right as you push. Not when both sides are already fighting, unlike the chaos nuke. If you opponent has committed chaos nuke is the way to go same with Orks. Eldar nuke is more when the time is right type of nuke. Since only the center does a freak ton of damage, but the other bolts do stun. I think it s more used on a tank(s) that are backing off and you successfully predict its escape route. So the player will have to be disciplined and go somewhere else and lose at least one tank. Or they will lose both. Or just drop on a LR variant and laugh. Space Marine nuke is like all the other but does do as well as the other nukes.

This is just my matter of opinion though.

Nids nuke= support a push by dislodging your opponent and removing any key buildings they maybe using, does not focus on killing rather than supporting.

Chaos Nuke = you opponent is pushing and have committed, focuses on killing range blobs of infantry. Chain cause more bleed unless you opponent retreat.

Orks = I feel like this nuke can punish you best if you blob up its relatively lol time for the first roks to land forces you opponent to move forward or retreat. I think its best using similarly to chaoses. when your opponent has committed.

IG = defense. Imo rocket run hit infantry soo hard that the vehicles will have to back off since they have no support. And then your tank can chase theirs since most likely hit lost a good 100 health from the nuke. But It can also wip infantry very well. I also think this nuke could also be called a "finisher" toward infantry based armies.

Eldar = Positioning is huge, since its all about that first bolt. I lost 3 tac when i first started to this nuke. Although after the first bolt is more disruption and stunning a tank. But that doesn't mean the other bolts don't do damage. They still hurt. But I feel like the best use of this nuke is when a TANK(s) has committed and is now immobilized or cutting off their escape route. So they either lose one tank (if they are disciplined) or both if not all of them.

SM = pretty much all of them put together in terms of usage imo. Support a push by disrupting specific squad in that area (excellent change increasing its cast range, would still love to see it increase more but i'm a SM fanboy). You set this bad boy up and you will kill a range blob. Melta bomb and Lascannon? Food for this nuke on a vehicle.I think It take a bit of work to place a SM nuke well but when you do there is just soo much you can do. it can be use as a defensive nuke, to support a push by getting ride of artillery, finishing off a tank that's stunned, Or kill a blob of units. ASM, libby and this nuke are awesome. Jump ASM use this nuke where the ASM landed and the retreat paths of the units have libby warp ASM out before the first beam and watch as you opponent suffers heavy losses.

But again that's just how i see those nukes and how they should be used. They wont always be used JUST like what i said. They will still shine and change games. Its just how you use it.

[SinisterLaugh]

To Black Relic:
I have one follow-up question - do you agree that each nuke should cost equal amount of red?
I mean, sure, cost of nukes been the same from the very beginning, but have you ever considered to apply any change there?

[Dark Riku]

If you'd go through the forums a bit Zero, you'd find explanations about Tyranoformation plenty, posted by myself. Also fallen on deaf ears.
I'm not going to waste more time on the subject as I did extensively in the past already. Especially not when the notion is as ridiculous as it is here.

People need to learn how to setup their nukes (vomit+roks comes to mind) instead of just throwing them around when they retreated their army.

@Relic, If the truth is rude, then so be it.

[Asmon]

DoW2 is a game whose purpose is to combine abilities in order to get the extra damage that will win you the game. Nukes too should be used along another ability to get the most of it. I waprthrow into Eldritch for instance. Try it with any IG ability, there sure are a lot of them.

[Codex]

Riku your last post was good. Leave it at that. No l2p and nothing else posts please.

[Black Relic]

To Black Relic:
I have one follow-up question - do you agree that each nuke should cost equal amount of red?
I mean, sure, cost of nukes been the same from the very beginning, but have you ever considered to apply any change there?

Well I think that them all being the same red cost is fine imo. Having game changing globals for a low red cost being spammable would make the game way too one sided imo.

Every Nuke is well thought out when taking a race units choices into account and what units/hero's abilities do. They kinda off set a races weak points abit when they are used correctly.

Orks nuke is absolutely devastating. Sense orks generate red automatically it would make sense to have its red cost be higher than 500. But Orks also rely on red for a lot of their unit's ability. Swamp 'em, AWT, stink bombs, frenzy, WAAGH! and quite a few more. This is also way i think most of their globals are under priced for what they do with the exception of the mek boy's More Dakka Global. Needs to be lowered a bit since it doesnt Knock back anymore. 65 red seems legit if i had to compare it to another global with a similar effect (FTE).

Chaos doesn't have a very good ways to deal with a ranged blob. Raptors, MoK havocs, blastmaster and Auto cannon termies are the only way. Raptors will bleed alot if there is a melee superiority unit protecting the blob, MoK havocs are a set up team so try to avoid the firing ark and you'll be fine(but they are incredible in pairs, pretty much can counter a walker with two of MoK Havocs if left alone for too long). Blastmaster is artillery and (imo) one very good way of dealing with it(but can still be avoided), Autocannon termies are in t3 and are expensive even without to autocannon upgrade. This nuke fills in the gap a bit. Punishes range blobs really bad but outside of the center the damage isn't too high (not neglectable though so sill get out) to rip squads to shreds. But that is where the chains to pull you into the center come in). Usually why we see it on ranged blobs or something that cannot move quickly out of the center (LRR). Since the damage falls off quickly splitting your forces is a good tactic to use so your opponent has to make a choice which target to force off/kill rather than have one big juicy decision (hehe). With that design in mind i think 500 red is perfectly fine Decreasing it would make it spammable and increasing it would make it harder to use since chaos player will use globals throughout the whole match since they are all really freaking good.

Imperial guard. Well I think that pretty simple, if the nuke damage tanks or even stunned them that would make IG this nuke the best in the game. It deals with grouped up infantry pretty well (IG can have a hard time with that in some cases) but they can deal with vehicles pretty well and easier than most races. Their HWT's Lascannon fires really freaking fast (add LG LC buff to him makes it stupid lol) their sentinel has fast AV to deal with transports (if microed well), I forgot to maintain HWT's their autocannon which still can work wonders on vehicles. Ograns (if they can get the of course). Small transitional AV from Catachans (that melta gun, should get a ranged increase but i am biased for catachans and only towards catachans lol). StormTroopers get a AV weapons and a AV nade whom also can infiltrate. And imperial guard also have the best tanks in the game. I et i missed something but if IG's stunned a tank and still did a small amount of damage it would still be OP since IG can follow up pretty well. I actually think its damage should be reduced since IG can handle infantry alot better in ELite mod with kaskins and spotters. But that's my personal opinion. But 500 red is pretty good for what it does. You can even position it in retreat well enough to knock the retreating units back into your firing line and you can do that twice. But splitting and the now delay activation time (so it can be dodged), 500 red it a good price especally if it hits well. Since it really can be more damaging than the ork nuke if place well.

Nids, they really have ways of dealing with garrisoned units so this nuke helps against that. Although people well say that this nuke isn't worth its cost (i used to agree) but I use it to advance my army rather than just killing shit. It causes confusion and knocks back enemy units and can deal a decent amount of damage (and sometimes one shot set up teams if they are positioned juuuust right). And When its used (look in the codex guys) if not only grants synapse to non heros and non synapse creature but increases all the nids speed by 50% in a radius of 100. The nuke isn't for killing shit thats for making a push and disrupting the enemy frontline AND backline. Cost if justified. If i want a buff to this it would be ALL nids on the map get the speed buff but then 3 mid players would be nearly unstoppable. But The fact this nuke support pushes so well 500 red cost is prefectly fine.

Eldar. Their nuke is pretty simple. Eldar are extremely fragile and have a hard time dealing with tank without warp spiders (they will bleed alot too if the tank is being baby set) and have a hard time pushing against a defensive line that is composed of one or two vehicles. This isn't a pushing nuke since player have time to react to this nuke. better the use when you have committed to the push imo. The vehicle get stunn so eldar can actually finish it off. This nuke has to have a follow up plan to make it work. If not then it its wasted. I can oneshot a set up team even in retreat if the models are close together. Even though it requires follow up it can be the reason why someones army is completely rekt.

Space Marines. This one is like every nuke into one really with the exception of buffing your army and one shotting a building (unless it's a defensive structure). I want to support a push or stop a push? Take out key enemy infantry squads out of the fight? Capitalize on a 100% snared vehicle (not easy lascannon and Melta bomb)? Punish a range blob? Do you want to punish a ranged blob, destroy a buildable structure (shrine), and capitalize on a 100% snare vehicle? This nuke can do all three of those thing at once. 500 red is pretty well placed for this nuke.

Those are my opinions, Idk if peeps will agree with me but 500 red is perfectly fine imo. I bet someone can explain it better than i can tbh.

[bibotot]

Watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm_uPcWqK9Y

At 16:01. Even Indrid says it is the power of the Rok that there is no way you can avoid being hit. Yarrick retreats immediately and still lost 1 full squad, plus many models on other squads. Can anyone give me an example of rocket run doing works against a high level player?

[Kvn]

Watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm_uPcWqK9Y

At 16:01. Even Indrid says it is the power of the Rok that there is no way you can avoid being hit. Yarrick retreats immediately and still lost 1 full squad, plus many models on other squads. Can anyone give me an example of rocket run doing works against a high level player?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfn7LBuYbg8

Same series. Game one. 17:55

[Black Relic]

Watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm_uPcWqK9Y

At 16:01. Even Indrid says it is the power of the Rok that there is no way you can avoid being hit. Yarrick retreats immediately and still lost 1 full squad, plus many models on other squads. Can anyone give me an example of rocket run doing works against a high level player?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfn7LBuYbg8

Same series. Game one. 17:55

Was about to post the same thing. What an amazing nuke lol.

[saltychipmunk]

Plus with roks , it is a similar mechanic to the storm in that there are key points in the aoe that does massive damage and you need to line things up for it to make magic.

you miss that sweet spot or spots and your nuke might seriously hurt some stuff, but it wont wipe anything. there will be a few models that simply wont be touched.

Where as if you pull a rocket run on some already injured squads and they land in the aoe it is pretty much uniformly devastating.