Sentinel Stomp Radius

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Element
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Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby Element » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 5:25 am

To kick start matters, I for one, am not a real fan of sentinels more likely than not having spent most of my D.o.W. II career playing against them. their harassment is infamous, In the right hands, they just never seem to die...that being said...Having played I.G. as of late, even I must acknowledge the stomp radius is a little bit upon the short end. I'm not saying even increase to it's previous level. I'm just saying we should consider increasing it a slight bit more than it is now, because right now, it really doesn't seem to catch really nearly as much, at least certainly as much to make the stomp a worthwhile upgrade. Even if that has to come in increasing the cost of the stomp upgrade a slight bit in req and +5 power. I still believe in seeing a unit actually be able to perform in its role to what it should be capable of. Right now, the stomp is in all honesty verging upon the side of pathetic, but that being said, lets not make it such a stabilizing ability that it naturally just can win the whole tier in itself just due to having purchased it either.
Last edited by Element on Fri 22 Mar, 2019 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby Torpid » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 5:50 am

For reference it was radius "10" before. At present it is radius "8".

9 could be tried.

Personally, what I'd like to see done with sentinels is the following:

Starting cost increased from 300 to 350.
Stomp upgrade now grants +100hp to the sentinel.

That way the power of the single sent remains, and in fact it scales quite well assuming you buy the stomp upgrade. At present I do feel the stomp upgrade is very mediocre since it grants no hp and doesn't have an amazing radius. Yet before with 10 radius it was op.

Yet the other issue is that 2 sentinel builds are still very strong and more or less an instant win on some maps. having the sent cost 350 out of the gate is a huge nerf to the 2 sent builds as it will mean there's a delay in the production of your 2nd sent even when you go starting gm- > sent -> gm -> sent. That takes a lot of the early game pressure off and will indirectly nerf 2 sent builds without really hurting 1 sent builds much at all, in fact it will buff them if they do get +100hp with the stomp upgrade.
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby Element » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 6:30 am

I would definitely actually be in support of both of the proposals you raised Torpid, Of course I would love to hear the input of what others would have to say, and any manner of concerns they may look to raise, given what effects such changes may have in particular match- ups, that of which we may have neglected.

Suggested Sentinel Changes
-+1 Stomp Radius up from 8-->9 but below previous level before nerf at 10.
-+50 req cost for the Sentinel w +100 Hp

-Of those If I were to say one thing, it's that a 100 HP increase may be too much, though something like +75 HP may be a little bit more acceptable.
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby boss » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 1:21 pm

Sentinel stomp should not even stun let alone get more radius, its what let sents counter everything in t1 just walk up and stun it this really need looking at, sentinel stomp should be a soft counter to melee not counter everything.

As for adding more heath with the upgrade don't mind it.
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby Element » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 2:32 pm

Sentinel stomp should not even stun let alone get more radius, its what let sents counter everything in t1 just walk up and stun it this really need looking at, sentinel stomp should be a soft counter to melee not counter everything.

As for adding more heath with the upgrade don't mind it.


Hmm...

1.) How long does the current sentinel stun last?

2.) The Stomp stun I think has always been a part of the game ?, but I can see where you are coming from, regarding its effectiveness to really neutralize units in T1 and give a huge safety net in T1. -->

Options
1.) Take away the stun completely and test out the impact towards I.G. T1, and if it proves to be too much, consider other alternatives which will alleviate the change out?

2.) Reduce the Stun of the stomp from what it is now which will certainly impact the safety net, charging the engagaments ever so slightly, but still retaining a sense of what I.G. once was able to do do in countering melee, just not to the same effect

Counter- Balamce Options
3.) Perhaps reintroducing scuttle back into T1 as compensation for any manner of loss of the stun given how units will be able to make their way into melee much easier now?

4.) Increasing the rate at which guardsman can deploy green cover as a means to build obstacles so as that T1 melee units may have to make their way around more obstacles--> a naturally induced slow to put in a few more effective shots, so as to slow them down a little more when it comes to reaching the guardsman in melee?


5.) Introduce a guardsman ability which upon buying the seregeant upgrade (With natural increases to the sergeant upgrade in Req ?/Power ? grant a momentarily set time of melee percentage damage reduction/ranged damage increase (Overwatch) looking to either mitigate the initial contact of the melee unit hitting the T1 guardsman/grant the guardsman a slight moment by which it has the opportunity to deal in just enough damage upon a charging unit, they may have to consider breaking off their attack./Ability--> Called "Stand your Ground".


So here are just some of the maybe possible ways to to introduce a sense of balance/counter balance given such a change would take place to the I.G. sentinel. If we were to look into changing the way in which the Sentinel is an effective unit but make it less dominable than what it currently is now, Some Creativity & Imagination will be naturally required it to where the community can see how such changes make the unit more welcoming to play against as opposed to outright loathed by I.G. players, given how such changes just seems to ouright Nerf a major mechanic of how I.G. play in T1 in any sense all together.
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby boss » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 4:56 pm

Stuns for 7 secs and it always had it hence why sents have always been broken.
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby Rostam » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 5:36 pm

as i recall it, sents were pretty much ok-ish at some point (idk mb it was 2.5 or 2.7 or sth)
but all of a sudden somebody decided that ok-things needed some radical changes for some reason, hence the new wave of upkeep changes and other stuff
personally I liked the old sentinels better. i geuss the reason sents would have to overperform is cuz its 20 (or 15, i dont recall exactly how much) power for the upgrade; which could be solved if the cost is lower, then they wont have to over perform! idk u figure it out :)
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Element
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby Element » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 6:05 pm

Stuns for 7 secs and it always had it hence why sents have always been broken.


7 seconds is indeed way too long. I would find 3 secs. quite acceptable however.

as i recall it, sents were pretty much ok-ish at some point (idk mb it was 2.5 or 2.7 or sth)
but all of a sudden somebody decided that ok-things needed some radical changes for some reason, hence the new wave of upkeep changes and other stuff
personally I liked the old sentinels better. i geuss the reason sents would have to overperform is cuz its 20 (or 15, i dont recall exactly how much) power for the upgrade; which could be solved if the cost is lower, then they wont have to over perform! idk u figure it out :)


I can't necessarily speak to previous patches, but the cost of the unit, at least to me anyways, has little- nothing to do with why the unit needs to overperform in T1. Which at that, there is no real reason any units needs to overperform in such a way at each tier to make up its cost that it breaks the meta in all its respective match- ups. Cost would be the least of the problems in such a case given that would mean the unit is incapable of performing to its needed standard given its allotted attributes as would pertain to being reaonably costed in relations to its other counterparts.
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby LOCALgHOST » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 7:32 pm

100hp back?
Ridiculous. Don't you dare even talk about that.
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Oddnerd
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby Oddnerd » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 7:59 pm

Why was the sentinel not fine back when stomp had a small radius and granted some bonus hp? Can't we just go back to that?
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby Atlas » Sat 23 Mar, 2019 5:58 am

I just know there's going to be salt mines coming from this thread. Few things draw as much salt as Sents.

For reference, the Sent stomp has been as low as 7 radius to as high as 10 radius.
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boss
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby boss » Sun 24 Mar, 2019 1:35 pm

Rostam wrote:as i recall it, sents were pretty much ok-ish at some point (idk mb it was 2.5 or 2.7 or sth)
but all of a sudden somebody decided that ok-things needed some radical changes for some reason, hence the new wave of upkeep changes and other stuff
personally I liked the old sentinels better. i geuss the reason sents would have to overperform is cuz its 20 (or 15, i dont recall exactly how much) power for the upgrade; which could be solved if the cost is lower, then they wont have to over perform! idk u figure it out :)





The only reason people didn't cry about sents back then cos gk and eldar was broken back then so ig got ignored that's no longer the case and were back to sents being retarded again like they always have been.
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Re: Sentinel Stomp Radius

Postby SOLID SQUIG » Sun 24 Mar, 2019 7:46 pm

Personally I don’t think the sent is out of control. Maybe nerf how fast guardsmen repair? Would make it harder to rapidly tank, heal, then fight again

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