Upkeep Findings & Implications(Long Post)

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Upkeep Findings & Implications(Long Post)

Postby Impregnable » Fri 31 May, 2019 2:41 pm

- For the past few months, there were several discussions and heated debates on Upkeep Standardization issue. To solve this issue, I felt a complete understanding of how an upkeep works is needed. Thankfully, Crewfinity, Atlas and Lunatic unraveled mysteries of the upkeep system through various experiments.
- I would especially like to thank Lunatic for providing the last key in understanding how the upkeep works. For those who don’t know him, he is not Lunatic Red. He is a very new person in Elite Mod community who happened to have tossed us a very crazy revelation regarding upkeep calculations. This article would not have been possible without him, so I thank him greatly for he has done such a great service for Elite Mod community despite only recently arriving in it.
- If you want to ask for evidence on what is written in this post, ask Lunatic for actual values. He has done extensive experiments, so he knows where and how to get these values.
Steam - https://steamcommunity.com/id/xcomfloater/
Discord - Lunatic#6624
- This entire article is based on what is summarized in the below post. Most of comments there are also very helpful in understanding this article and the next one that I posted so please read it through for better understanding.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4351

What we already know
1. Upkeep for under 30 population is not paid.
- Upkeep is not paid if the population is exactly 30.

2. Upkeep value shown in game is per minute.

3. Upkeep value does count to below 2 decimals. However, it is shown as whole number in game disregarding below decimals values.

4. Upkeep is based on models.
- This causes a phenomenon I dub Clipping. Higher the population value of a model is, earlier it clips. Sentinel is a great example of this.
- 2 Sarge GM squad 16 pop + 15 Sentinel = 31 population. There is only 1 population over 30 and do I pay upkeep for only 1? No, you pay per model, so you pay for entire sentinel upkeep. This is what I meant by Clipping.

5. Upkeep is hard rigged to per population value.
- The game calculates upkeep like this. There are no exceptions.
1) There is upkeep per pop value for each model. (1 pop = 2.55)
2) Multiply it by total population. (2.55 x 15 = 38.25)
3) If it is a squad, extra step is taken for dividing the pop and upkeep by the number of squad members. (38.25 / 3 = 12.75)

What we thought how upkeep works.
1. Most upkeep expensive units are taxed first after going over 30 population.
2. Every time a model dies, or a unit is purchased, the game system rearranges models from the least expensive ones to the most.
3. The game system adds up pop values of each model until one model clips over 30. That model and following models are charged with upkeep.

Example
- Below values are for population. For simplifying the example, upkeep rate is set to 1 pop = 1 upkeep. [] indicates included models belong to the same squad.
1)
---------------------Free 30|
[6 + 6] + [5 + 5] + [4 + 4]|
= +264 default req income with no upkeep

2) Two models die - (4) - (5) and two new units are purchased + [(7) + (7)] + (8).
- Is it over 30? Yes.
- Arrange models from the least expensive ones to the most from left to right.
-------------Free 30|
4 + 5 + [6 + 6] + [7| + 7] + 8

3) Calculate upkeep from models which went over 30 population.
7 + 8 = 15 upkeep
+264 - 15 = +249 req income

However, above system was proven wrong by new findings.

Finding #1
1. Models are placed in chronological order of being purchased and reinforced.
2. The game system strictly remembers their places and losing models automatically causes the entire model list to slide downwards into 30 population.
3. Newly purchased models and reinforced models are always placed at the end of the list.

Example
1)
---------------Free 30|
6 + 6 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 5|

2) Two models die - (4) - (5) and two new units are purchased + [(7) + (7)] + (8).
----------Free 30|
6 + 6 + 4 + 5 + 7| + 7 + 8

3) Squad members for (4) and (5) are reinforced back to full strength.
----------Free 30|
6 + 6 + 4 + 5 + 7| + 7 + 8 + 4 + 5

Finding #2
- Finding 1 tells us how models are placed in order, but it is not enough to tell us the whole picture. Finding 2 covers how upkeep is actually calculated.
1. The moment a model clips over 30 population. A rule is applied to calculate the upkeep.

2. Clipping model and models that are gained afterwards minus their upkeep from +264. If any unit is lost, + their upkeep to the req income.
Proviso - It is super important to remember that any unit lost whether it is below or above 30 population plus their upkeep value for the calculation.

3. This rule is constantly applied until total population of models drop below 30 population or reaches exactly 30 population. This means the upkeep value is reset back to 0 which will be shown as +264 requisition income inside the game assuming you did not capture any additional req points.

Explanation in detail using Lunatic’s example.
1) A model clips over 30 pop and that model is charged an upkeep.
+(10) Inquisitorial SS +(1) ISS Sergeant +(5) GK Termi Librarian +(5) Vindicare Assasin
+(12) Inquisitorial Ops = 33 population
-------------------------------------Free 30|
2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 5 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 3| + 3
3 x 2.55 = 7.65
+264 - 7.65 = +256.35 req income

2) From this point onwards population is disregarded and only upkeep values value of each model lost or gained matter.
- The rule is simple when a model is lost +their upkeep to the req income and when a model is gained -their upkeep to the req income.
+(15) Strike Squad
15 x 2.55 = 38.25
+256.35 - 38.25 = +218.1 req income
-(5) Vindicare Assasin
218.1 + 20.4 = +238.5 req income
-(5) GK Termi Librarian
238.5 + 26 = +264.5 req income

3) It is back at +264 and it even has 0.5 surplus and the population is 38?!
-------------------------------------Free 30|
2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 5| + 5 + 5 = 38 population
+(10) Inquisitorial SS +(1) ISS Sergeant +(12) Inquisitorial Ops +(15) Strike Squad = 38 population

Finding #3
- Finding 2 tells us below effects exist.
1. Upkeep Surplus & Upkeep Deficit
1/ Once over 30 population rule is applied a phenomenon called Upkeep Surplus or Upkeep Deficit effect happens when models die.
- Let us consider every pop/ upkeep rate is standard rate of pop/ 2.55 upkeep.

2/ Upkeep Surplus happens when models above standard rate of upkeep die.
Example
- A single entity unit with pop/ 4.55 upkeep pop x 15 pop dies.
- (4.55 - 2.55 = 2) x 15 = 30
- Assuming all other upkeep costing models have standard pop/ 2.55 upkeep, +30 upkeep worth of population is not paid as a result of losing the single entity. In the end, 30 / 2.55 = 11.76 population worth of upkeep is not paid as a result.
- You have more benefit if other upkeep paying models have less than standard rate of upkeep.
- You have less benefit if other upkeep paying models have more than standard rate of upkeep.

3/ On contrary, Upkeep Deficit happens when models below standard rate of upkeep die.
Example
- A single entity unit with pop/ 1.55 upkeep pop x 15 pop dies.
- (1.55 - 2.55 = -1) x 15 = -15
- Assuming all other upkeep costing models have standard pop/ 2.55 upkeep, -15 upkeep worth of population is over paid as a result of losing the single entity. In the end, -15 / 2.55 = -5.88 population worth of upkeep is over paid as a result.
- The penalty is lessened if other upkeep paying models have more than standard rate of upkeep.
- The penalty is worsened if other upkeep paying models have less than standard rate of upkeep.

2. Below 0 upkeep
- Remember at the end of Finding 2 we ended up with 264.5 req income?
- 0 upkeep = +264 req income. Then what the hell happens to 0.5 extra? It means we have -0.5 upkeep and is there even a minus upkeep?
- According to Lunatic’s experiment, there can be no minus upkeep value so when that 0.5 value occurs, you have +264 which gives you 0 upkeep. However, that 0.5 value is remembered by the game system and is used when you purchase or reinforce other units.
Example
- You bought +(5) Vindicare Assasin which has 20.4 upkeep so should you have req income of +264 - 20.4 = 243.6?
- Answer is no because of 0.5 we had back then. It is 264.5 - 20.4 = 244.1.

3. Surplus and Deficit can only happen with a squad wipe.
- Losing squad members and reinforcing them is meaningless in terms of upkeep as it is about subtracting and adding the same value.
- Of course, while the squad is retreating back to base, Upkeep Surplus or Upkeep Deficit will happen depending on the rate of upkeep of that squad.
Example
- Lost 2 squad members with pop/1 upkeep rate and reinforced them back.
+264 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 1 = +264 req income with no difference.

4. Surplus and Deficit cannot happen with entirely standardized upkeep.
- If all population has same upkeep/pop ratio. There can neither be a surplus nor deficit for upkeep.

Finding #4
- Free upkeep population of 30 can be adjusted per faction. While reading through old Dawn of War 2 wiki, I have found out that Tyranids actually had 21 free upkeep in original DOW2. This means we can adjust free upkeep population for each faction separately.
- This can be one of the new options in balancing a factions’ economy alongside other findings we have here.

Implications
- These findings have huge implications on how we use upkeep. Important implications are as below.

1. There is limitation on the total upkeep value that can be assigned to a model
- Since total upkeep can only be calculated as rate x total pop, there are certain numbers that cannot be reached as a total upkeep.
- The restriction is minimal for single entities but squad models are heavily restricted in terms of what numbers can be assigned as a total.
- Squad models can only be assigned total upkeep numbers that can be reached by the formulae of rate x total pop / the number of squad members.
- 3 model squads can only have pop values of 3, 6, 9 and so on. In case of 4 model squad, it can only have pop value of 4, 8, 12 and so on.
- Squad leaders are also minimally restricted like a single entities as they can be assigned a different rate from the rest of the squad members without affecting their rate.

2. High total pop single entities can effectively prevent a player from going below 30 population.
- As shown by Finding 2. All replaced squad models are placed at the back of the line and the entire list sinks into 30 pop range. This means die last leaders, vehicles and sub commanders will be within 30 pop range as all other units get replaced and is placed at the back of the list in the long run.
- Tanks with 18 pop and a few other not easy to kill squads + die last leaders and other vehicles will effectively prevent the population from going below 30 by taking up large portion of the 30 population.
Example
- Leman(18) + Chimera(10) + A single Artillery Spotter model(3). = 31 pop. Even if an IG player lost one’s entire army, as long as those units are alive, one can never reach below 30 pop.

3. Upkeep Surplus effect reinforces the role of upkeep as a catch up mechanism
- Upkeep has the purpose of being a catch up mechanism and it is done by below 2 methods.
1) Player who has more units are penalized in req income
2) Players who loses units are compensated with better req income by not paying upkeep for those units
- Finding #3 has shown us that losing higher than standard upkeep rate units compensate a player even more via Upkeep Surplus.
- Units with higher upkeep tends to be more valuable and losing them can seriously set back a player. Considering this point, current upkeep system helps a player even more than what we believed in the past via Upkeep Surplus.

4. Total upkeep and upkeep rate per pop are two different things
- High total upkeep penalizes a player for having keeping a unit alive long,
- Low total upkeep penalize a player less for keeping a unit alive long.
- High upkeep rate per pop allow a player to have more req income for losing models.
- Low upkeep rate per pop penalize a player heavily to have less req income for losing models.

- This means there can be 4 different combinations of above effects with different outcomes.
1) High Total / High Rate
- A player is penalized heavily for keeping the unit alive for long but is compensated heavily with req surplus for losing them.
2) High Total / Low Rate
- A player is penalized heavily for keeping the unit alive for long and is penalized even more with req deficit for losing them.
- This is the worst nerf can be given to a unit upkeep wise.
- This kind of squad do not exist.
3) Low Total / High Rate
- A player does not pay much upkeep for keeping the unit alive for long and is awarded with a req surplus if the unit is lost.
- This is the best buff that can be given to a unit upkeep wise.
- Sub commanders are this type of units.
4) Low Total / Low Rate
- A player does not pay much upkeep for keeping the unit alive for long but is penalized with req deficit for losing them.
- This kind of squad do not exist.

5. What new findings tell us about upkeep standardization
- I will be mainly focusing on evaluation of upkeep standardization at the other post but here are a few points for and against it as shown by new findings.
1) Standardization will hurt the catch up function of upkeep system for High Rate units
- This is a cons point against upkeep standardization. If we standardize upkeep and make high upkeep rate squads cost less upkeep rate, the players will be penalized req income wise for losing them and it will be harder to come back from the loss.
2) Standardization is good for Low Rate units.
- On the contrary, we may want to bring up less upkeep squads up to the standard rate because losing them will actually cause an Upkeep Deficit. Low Rate is always bad. It is better to give such units a Low Total upkeep instead.

- Now that we know how upkeep system works, please have a look at my other post for evaluation of upkeep standardization.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5510

- If you want to refute these findings, there must be an explanation for below phenomenon.
+(10) Inquisitorial SS
+(1) ISS Sergeant
+(5) GK Termi Librarian
+(5) Vindicare Assasin
+(12) Inquisitorial Ops
+(15) Strike Squad = 48 population
-(5) GK Termi Librarian
-(5) Vindicare Assasin = 38 Population and +264 req income and no upkeep why?
Last edited by Impregnable on Fri 31 May, 2019 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Atlas

Re: Upkeep Findings & Implications(Long Post)

Postby Atlas » Fri 31 May, 2019 7:56 pm

Image

Oh boi. CAN"T WAIT.

But seriously, tyvm for putting this all together! I got to get in contact with Mr. Lunatic sometime. He seems like a gentleman.
I'm going to be coming back to these two posts several times. Have gone through them once but don't know if I've totally digested it. Especially the parts about Surplus and Deficit. I believe those will be the most salient points going forward.
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Re: Upkeep Findings & Implications(Long Post)

Postby Lunatic » Sat 01 Jun, 2019 4:59 am

Atlas wrote:Image
Especially the parts about Surplus and Deficit. I believe those will be the most salient points going forward.

Upkeep Surplus and Upkeep Decifit are two new terms Impregnable created to describe the event of upkeep repayment for non-standardized units. As we know, the game will not charge you an upkeep cost for any models that fit into the initial 30 pop. But it will charge you for any models that are over the 30 pop threshold, and will also 'clip' the model that pushed you over 30 pop (hence the charging per model revelation). As long as you stay above 30 pop, this becomes the rule for upkeep cost taxation per model; taxing you on a per model basis.

The game takes upkeep away, but it also gives upkeep back. When you lose a model, the game will no longer charge the upkeep cost/return upkeep cost for that model. This occurs for every single model you have deployed that has an upkeep cost, regardless of the time purchase nor the order of purchase. This is why losing units begins to increase your req income back to normal amounts (until you drop back down to 30 pop or hit 264 base req income).

To quickly sum the game's upkeep cost logic:
-We pay no upkeep on initial 30 population's worth of models. Base req is set to 264
-We are charged upkeep cost for the models over 30 pop threshold (with clipping)
-We are no longer charged upkeep cost/are returned upkeep cost for the models that are lost while over 30 pop threshold. If you drop back to 30 pop or lower, upkeep rules reset back to Rule 1.

Why is this important for future balance?
The last rule, where we are no longer charged for models that are lost while over 30 pop threshold, is particularly noteworthy for any upkeep based balance changes regarding bleeding. With past upkeep models, it was believed that units that bleed more should be given lower than standard upkeep so they would be less of a drain on the economy (as the game should then charge you for the expensive models). With new knowledge of upkeep mechanics, we can argue that this will not always be the case. In fact, sometimes the bleed prone units are the ones that a player would want to have higher than standard upkeep, as losing those models would then return the upkeep cost that you were currently paying. It all boils down to whether or not that model was part of the initial 30 pop.

If that model lost just so happened to be a model from the initial 30 pop line-up, you may experience the event of Upkeep Surplus or Upkeep Deficit. These are terms used to describe relative gains and loses in upkeep when losing units that are non-standardized. To put it simply, you WANT your initial 30 pop to contain any models with an upkeep cost above the standardized cost (2.55 per pop), that way you can get away with NOT paying their high upkeep cost. Also, if you lose any of those models later on, you will be returned the upkeep cost, even if you were not currently paying for it. This is how you can get an Upkeep Surplus, or an addition return on upkeep relative to the standardized rate. [It is with an Upkeep Surplus that the Grey Knights example is able to achieve the 264 upkeep with 38 pop]. An Upkeep Deficit would occur if that model lost was below standardized upkeep, as their upkeep return would be less than the standardized upkeep per model.

Here's an extreme example of what Upkeep Surplus can achieve:
As Chaos Space Marines, imagine if Heretics were bumped up to a sky-high 102 upkeep cost per model (compared to 2.55 currently). Now we do:
(8) Tic + (8) Tics + (8) Tics then +(15) CSM = 39 Pop, 238 req <---264 req - 25.5=238 (from the 2 CSM models, including the clipped model)
Even though the Heretics have an extremely high upkeep cost, you wouldn't feel the severity of the upkeep cost. Yet losing 1 Tic model would drop us down to 38 pop, but give us +102 upkeep income return on its death.

So 264 income -25.5(2 CSM) + 102(1 TIC) => 264 with a 76.5 Upkeep Surplus (this can fund an additional 30 Pop without dropping us below 264 upkeep income!)

Here's the reverse, Upkeep Deficit:
Imagine if heretics were dropped down to 0 upkeep cost per model. Now we do:
(8) Tic + (8) Tics + (8) Tics then +(15) CSM = 39 Pop, 238 Req
Now we start losing Heretic models, one by one. Since Heretic models are now costing us 0 upkeep cost per model, losing a Heretic model will return 0 upkeep cost per model. (note that normally, at their current standardized rate, they would return 2.55 upkeep per model)
-1 Tic = 238 req, 38 pop
-1 Tic = 238 req, 37 pop
-1 Tic = 238 req, 36 pop
-1 Tic = 238 req, 35 pop
-1 Tic = 238 req, 34 pop...
This would continue, until you lose enough models to hit 30 pop or below, in which case you reset.

Technically speaking, if there has ever been non-standardized units in DoW 2 Elite's lifespan, then there has been Upkeep Surplus and Upkeep Deficit in play. If at anytime in DoW 2 Elite's lifespan there had been any T1 starting units (Scouts, Sluggas, Hererics, Dire Avenger, Guardsmen, Hormaguants, ect) that had a lowered upkeep cost rate to help the faction's eco, it may have, ironically, worsened that faction's eco (since you immediately start with one of those squads in the initial 30 pop). Upkeep is quite the double edged sword as it is just as likely to help balance as it is to worsen it. But now that the community has a better understanding of it, it can be used to be of more benefit than detriment.
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Re: Upkeep Findings & Implications(Long Post)

Postby Impregnable » Sat 01 Jun, 2019 10:24 am

Adding on to what lunatic added. The upkeep economy of T1.
- In any event you all out of sudden drop down below 30 population like getting nuked and losing almost an entire army. Ideal way of recovering is as below when only looking at economic perspective of it.
1) Fit as many squads into 30 pop that has above standard upkeep rate.
2) Among the above standard upkeep rate, there are some squads who also have high total upkeep at the same time. This type of squads are to be prioritized.
3) Avoid single entities that have huge population value because you don't want clipping.

However, it usually means defeat if this sort of army wipes happens in 1v1. Thus, the situation in which you realistically have to count every model's upkeep values this way is when you are purchasing T1 squads. They are the ones who will most likely to be filling in first 30 pop. Every T1 squads are essential in the army composition of all factions in 1v1. Going light on them is possible but skipping them is not so their upkeep and pop values are extremely important matter to analyse in detail. Below are related findings.

1/ T1 High model low health per model squads should not be assigned a below standard upkeep rate.
- They are constantly not at full force and is easily wiped.
- Upkeep Deficit will happen if they have below standard upkeep rate which will make a player suffer for constantly losing their squad members.
- Making them standard upkeep will prevent this Upkeep Deficit.
- As a result of having below standard upkeep, they have low total upkeep. However, considering the fact that they are always fitted inside 30 free population range, this is not a benefit for them.

2/ Assigning them higher upkeep rate is also possible but it has consequences.
- Most of those squads have pop value of 1 and many squad models. Reducing total upkeep requires reducing pop value of each squad member but it cannot be done because each squad member have pop value of 1 and cannot be reduced further.
- In that case, increasing the upkeep rate equals increasing the total upkeep and there is no way to lower total upkeep.
- Benefits and loss are as follows when assigning higher upkeep rate for T1 high model low health per model squads.
Benefit
- Player gain more free total upkeep benefit for fitting them into free 30 population range.
- Those squads cost more total upkeep so not paying it is a benefit.
- Upon losing squad members or getting the squad wiped, Upkeep Surplus effect is greater.
- If they happened to have more than 1 population per model, the loss part can be compensated by decreasing the total upkeep through decreasing the pop of each squad member.
Loss
- Player is penalized by higher total upkeep if these squads are purchased beyond free 30 population.
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Re: Upkeep Findings & Implications(Long Post)

Postby Antandron » Sun 02 Jun, 2019 4:33 pm

Can all this surplus/deficit be avoided with a fixed 2.55 upkeep/pop for all units?
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Re: Upkeep Findings & Implications(Long Post)

Postby Impregnable » Sun 02 Jun, 2019 5:44 pm

Antandron wrote:Can all this surplus/deficit be avoided with a fixed 2.55 upkeep/pop for all units?


Yes, it is completely gone if everything is set to 2.55 upkeep/pop value. However, it must not be done for below reasons.

In order for, upkeep to be a catch up mechanism it should do below two things.
1) Penalize a player more for keeping more units so that snowballing effect is lesser.
-> Total upkeep + above standard upkeep rate fulfill this function.
1.1) If that unit is more valuable, it should be taxed more. -> Total upkeep + above standard upkeep rate fulfill this function.

2) A player who is on the losing end by losing a bunch of units, should be compensated with better req income so that snowballing effect is lesser.
-> Total upkeep fulfill this function.
2.1) If the unit lost is more valuable, the player should be compensated more. -> Above standard upkeep fulfill this function.

This leads to below conclusions.
1) Below standard upkeep rate should be removed by setting it to the standard upkeep rate.
- A player should not be penalized upkeep wise for losing a unit. Below standard upkeep cause this to happen via Upkeep Deficit.
- Below standard upkeep should only exist for seriously penalizing a unit. This measure can only be used as a last resort. Most of the time increasing total upkeep does the job for nerfing upkeep of a unit.

2) Above standard upkeep rate should not be removed.
- Above standard upkeep rate is reinforcing.
1) Penalize a player more for keeping more units.
1.1) Penalize a player even more for keeping more valuable units.
2.1) Compensate a player even more for losing more valuable units.
- Removing of above standard upkeep results in worsening of snowballing effect so it should not be removed unlike below standard upkeep.
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