2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

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Arbit
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2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Arbit » Thu 27 Mar, 2014 8:45 pm

2P IMPERIAL PLAZA - UPDATED

I've made the following enhancements
- Atmospheric sound effects
- Complete lighting overhaul
- Moar splats and general enhancement on the southern area which was a little drab
- Fixed several visual effects that would display in the worldbuilder but weren't displaying in-game for some reason
- Made the grass less homogenous
- Adjusted health on various structures to give it a more battle-worn/decrepit look
- Updated loading image

Image

Image
Starting Area
Image
Bottom VP
Image
Top VP

Imperial survey teams have located a volcanically active planet with ancient imperial structures showing signs of battle and chaos incursion. Fight to claim it for the imperium or for your own nefarious ends! This is a two player victory point control map. I guess you can play annihilate, too. Download instructions are below.

Please give me feedback on how the map can be improved! This is my first map essentially (the other one was kinda garbage and half finished). This one is finished in the sense that it is all detailed and looks pretty spiffy if I do say so myself. It just needs playtesting and undoubtedly will require changed based on player feedback. I cannot stress this enough - please, give me feedback! I don't want this map to be regulated to the heap o' maps that nobody plays, so I'll be receptive to critique. Pull no punches!

Note that I plan on making a 2v2 version of this map... I think it may be better suited for 2v2 since it is on the large side. This will require a little expansion to accommodate two more bases, which would likely go to the central north and south map edges. I did have a four player version with bases to the west of the existing bases but it got cramped with the two extra players immediately mashing on each other over the western VP and two power points. Another alternative would be to put a player in each corner. Anyway, that's for the future.

>>>>DOWNLOAD HERE<<<<

INSTRUCTIONS FOR INSTALLATION
1. Follow da link to Google Drive.
2. Click the File menu and select download. Alternatively, press ctrl+s (this may engage your popup blocker for some reason just FYI).
3. Extract and merge the contents to your "Dawn of War II - Retribution" folder. This is typically in "program files/steam/steamapps/common/" or "program files (x86)/steam/steamapps/common/"
Last edited by Arbit on Fri 27 Jun, 2014 12:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
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Orkfaeller
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby Orkfaeller » Thu 27 Mar, 2014 8:51 pm

Inbefore Max Power's "needs more splats"

____

looking promising^^

I feel a bit more cover wouldnt hurt, but could be just me.
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Indrid
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby Indrid » Thu 27 Mar, 2014 9:12 pm

Yay more maps!

Not looked at it yet, but the loading screen image is 2136px by 1200px. You'll just have to stretch/crop and so on. Make sure you add your own black borders where needed to retain the weird 5:3-ish aspect ratio and prevent white gaps.
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PhatE
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby PhatE » Thu 27 Mar, 2014 10:51 pm

Looks nice thus far. Not sure about the others but I'm not a fan of stairs, it leads to unnecessary choke points (unless the stairs are really wide) when there doesn't need to be.

As well as flanks being much harder as there are only two ways to defend your natural resources.

The general theme is nice it feels very gothic, it reminds me a lot of the cover from Horus Rising.

But for the resources it comes in line with my previous point. That it's hard to defend I'd probably want it closer to this. I do apologize for my atrocious drawing but I did it with snipping tool. If you were after symmetry then this will kind of ruin things but a lot of maps aren't perfectly symmetrical.
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MaxPower
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby MaxPower » Thu 27 Mar, 2014 10:53 pm

Before I start looking into this map a small plea: This goes for all the other map makers as well, make the loading screen maps (the *.dds in the ui folder) octagonal not just quadrangular. Let me show you what I mean:

This is yours:
Image

The corners of your mini map will poke out of the loading screen frame, the blue thingy in the mid.

This is how it looks like in game (yeah not your map I know, but Indrids maps have the same flaw):
Image


And this is how it should be, makes the mini maps look better, more professional so to speak:
Image

This is how it looks in game:
Image

Kind regards

Max Power
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Torpid
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby Torpid » Thu 27 Mar, 2014 10:55 pm

I haven't downloaded it yet.

However from the map layout it looks really nice. I love how spread out it is and how unnatural the power/reqs are. On so many maps it's literally unviable to go for a gen bash or a de-cap on their natural req. It costs you too much bleed most of the time and has the opportunity cost of other map control that it's never worth it.
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Indrid
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby Indrid » Fri 28 Mar, 2014 7:27 am

Took a look at it. Note these thoughts come from someone that does not typically play 1v1.

Overall structure seems good (assuming it's all LoS blocked correctly), point placement is logical and strong. Might be on the large side, which might annoy some. Doesn't seem any bigger than say Outer Reaches though and people are finicky.

In terms of aesthetics it is generally well done I think and quite pleasing. One thing though: I think the lighting needs to be redone. It severely lacks any subtlety at the moment, just seems to be the "default" lighting. It's not easy to get right but makes a huge difference in the feel of a map. Also perhaps add some effects that could add to the theme; smoke, ash etc or a little weather.

Just need to polish up the atmosphere I think and it'll be a very good effort, then we see what the 1v1 players have to say about it.
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MaxPower
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby MaxPower » Sat 29 Mar, 2014 2:39 am

Okay taken a look at the map and i like the actual texture work, some good texture blending.

Things you should change are the fog, the lighting + add some light objects and add more overall objects to the map, looks kinda barren, especially the areas that used to be buildings. Btw. if you click on a placed object you can edit it state, giving it more of a destroyed look. Just press the edit state button, then add, then sethealth and pick a number normally .5 is good to go, means the object only has half its hitpoints but it will get a nice destroyed look.

I might be mistaken, but I didn't hear any sounds. How about adding some map sounds like the wind whistling.

And ofc more splats.

Gonna show you how I would change the looks a bit.

Image
Image

Hope I could help a bit.

Btw. if you wanna get the "changed" map I made let me know.
I've changed the following things in that little area:

- different lighting + some light objects
- different fog
- different global light/sun setting
- added some objects
- added some splats
- redone some of the texture work
- added some god rays which goes hand in hand with the light object I placed on top of the power point
"A fortress is built with blood and toil. Only by blood and toil may it be taken." Leman Russ
Arbit
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby Arbit » Sat 29 Mar, 2014 7:17 pm

Yes, please do send your modified version Mr. Power.

Thanks all for the feedback. I will definitely rework the lighting, add some sounds, and make modifications to the loading screen minimap. I'd like to get some more feedback on the "naturalness" of the power points before making adjustments. As Torpid's post indicates, there can be some difference of opinion on how defendable your natural power should be. My thinking was that power bashes wouldn't be too easy given how large the map is and vulnerability to flanking while bashing, but the distance between their base and their natural power point should make bashing your opponent a possibility.

Again, thanks for the feedback so far and I'm pleased with the generally positive response! If someone were to post replays of the map in action, I think I'd die of gratitude. 8-)

Question: do the smoke and burning embers show up all along the edge of the grass area on the west side of the map? The idea was to make it look like a grass fire, however I found that on my computer the smoke and embers on the northern half wouldn't always show up for some reason.
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
Arbit
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Re: NEW MAP 2P Imperial Plaza - Initial Release

Postby Arbit » Tue 17 Jun, 2014 4:34 am

After a long vacation and a wicked respiratory infection, I am doing some visual updates in line with Max Power has suggested.
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
Arbit
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Arbit » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 8:28 pm

Alright, made some updates. See the original post for details and download link.

How do you clip the corners so the minimap fits nicely in the box during the loading screen? My image editing skills are failing me.
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
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MaxPower
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby MaxPower » Wed 25 Jun, 2014 7:39 pm

just from the screens one can tell that this version looks way better, gj :)
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Indrid » Wed 25 Jun, 2014 11:02 pm

The loading screen has large black borders on the left and right side. I assume this is not intended.

Map's looking good. Please fix the above issue and go over every inch with a keen eye to try and catch anything you've missed. Then I can try and get it into 2.3.0 which should be built very soon.
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Arbit » Fri 27 Jun, 2014 12:11 am

I've fixed the loading screen so it's the correct resolution. It's a bit blurry because I can't get a higher in-game resolution than 1600x1050. I also took another look over the map and updated the download link in the OP.

Also, just so you know, your logo is partially outside the frame when running the game at 1600x1050.Image

That would be great if my map could get in 2.3! Guess I need to make my own logo now! I thought about just using my name in pink comic sans but opted against it.

Oh and thanks for the kind words, guys.
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Indrid » Fri 27 Jun, 2014 12:56 am

Yeah my logo is cut off in 16:10 resolutions.

16:10 is heresy.
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Arbit » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 1:48 am

Anyone have comments/critiques of the map? Even if you've never played it, telling me why you don't want to could be of help.

I've got the itch to do some mapping and I'm thinking about converting this into a 2v2 map and/or starting a new 3v3 from scratch.
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
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Dark Riku
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 2:02 am

I've played on it only versus 1 person so far. It's aright.
Maybe include it in the MRT? So you can get more feedback?
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Arbit
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Arbit » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 2:19 am

That's a good idea; I'll run it by Eerie and see what he thinks.

Any ideas on improvements? Any problems with pathing or similar issues?
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
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Torpid
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Torpid » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 3:02 am

I like what I've played on it so far (3 or so games). Will write a proper response again tomorrow after I take another look at it.
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Arbit
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Arbit » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 6:36 am

Awesome! Looking forward to it.

Here's what I was thinking for a 2v2 version:
Image
The 2p and 4p spots will need to be moved outward as indicated by the arrows. I may move out the 1p and 3p spots as well. A few new points have been added and the existing ones have been juggled around a bit... I think it should go smoothly enough. Thoughts and ideas are welcome as always.
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
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PhatE
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby PhatE » Tue 12 Aug, 2014 1:20 pm

The things I'm not a fan of:

This map is very large, I'd say too large for regular speed units. It would need a trim and resources being closer together perhaps. It lends too much to the faster units/races such as Scouts, Eldar in general, Tyranids with the towers

Eldar are very strong on this map due to fleet being on nearly everything as well as gates (there are some really sneaky places to put them) and flanks are too easy to execute. You're dedicating too much time to finding these things and suppression teams aren't very effective. Some matchups require this type of unit to function throughout the game.

I'm not a huge fan of the stairs at your entrance either (or in general) and I can see this being exploited to an insane degree.

Retreating also takes an exceptionally long time to get back to base from a little bit beyond the half way point, again attributing to the idea that the map is too large.

Things I do like:

The idea behind it - it seems like you've definitely put some thought into it when you've gone to go make it.

The terrain - I really like the colour and theme you've decided on.

Adequate cover - Last time I was playing on this the cover was suitable enough where you weren't naked too often. I don't remember if there was lots at the VP's (I do at the centre but don't remember about the other two).

Things I'm a little indifferent on:

The amount of money makers - I really like the scheme of GtG where you can have at times 4 req points and two power points. 2 is the minimum but maybe being able to hold 3 for each player could be nice too.
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Arbit
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Arbit » Tue 12 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Regarding the size, I'm thinking about cutting out the ashy looking bits in the top and lower right since there is no reason to go over there except to make sneaky eldar gates (see X's on image below). I'm not sure how I could overall make the map smaller... perhaps by pushing the bases a bit closer as shown by the double arrows? Would that make the western power nodes too easy to defend?

What problem is there with the stairs? Is it pathing issues or the fact that they create chokepoints? I did add little pathways out of each base so covering the stairs with a suppression team shouldn't (in theory) pin you in your base (see single arrows on image below). If it's pathing, I could potentially make these into slopes and widen the gap in the wall.

I'll think a bit about how a could fit two more req points in. Point spacing was something I was a little unsure of and it sounds like they might be a bit too far apart.

I'm also thinking about a name change, because the one I picked is dull as dishwater :cry:

Thanks for the feedback! If you get a good match, be sure to send me a replay. ;)

Image
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
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Re: 2P Imperial Plaza - Updated

Postby Torpid » Wed 13 Aug, 2014 2:21 am

Ugghh, seems like it will be longer than I thought till I get on DOW. I'll do it one day, but given that I'm going on holiday in a few days it might be quite a while... -_-
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!

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